<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: A View of the Victims of the &#8220;War on Kosher&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher</link>
	<description>Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 04:07:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Posh Jew</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12917</link>
		<dc:creator>Posh Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12917</guid>
		<description>Who says that a vegetarian - and even more (less) so, a vegan - &quot;lifestyle&quot; is a healthful lifestyle?  Exactly the opposite is true.  Moderate amounts of meat are much more healthful than no meat or poultry or fish at all.

As for obesity, I used to know a vegetarian who dieted on cake (pareve - so it was vegan, of course) more than anything else and wasn&#039;t exactly slim.  I also used to know a self-proclaimed vegan who dropped dead in her early 60s; while not fat, she certainly wasn&#039;t the greatest speciman of health.

On the other hand, my in-laws are both into their 90s; they never met a good piece of meat they didn&#039;t like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who says that a vegetarian &#8211; and even more (less) so, a vegan &#8211; &#8220;lifestyle&#8221; is a healthful lifestyle?  Exactly the opposite is true.  Moderate amounts of meat are much more healthful than no meat or poultry or fish at all.</p>
<p>As for obesity, I used to know a vegetarian who dieted on cake (pareve &#8211; so it was vegan, of course) more than anything else and wasn&#8217;t exactly slim.  I also used to know a self-proclaimed vegan who dropped dead in her early 60s; while not fat, she certainly wasn&#8217;t the greatest speciman of health.</p>
<p>On the other hand, my in-laws are both into their 90s; they never met a good piece of meat they didn&#8217;t like.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zepo</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12899</link>
		<dc:creator>Zepo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12899</guid>
		<description>What shameful comments by the Jewish community in regard to still blaming the messenger, PETA, instead of the guilty, for the obscene cruelty to animals that existed in this hell hole, so-called &quot;kosher slaughterhouse.&quot; Many Jews are appalled at the lack of compassion for helpless animals shown by the broad Jewish community, and I am one of them. Always accusing animal advocates for &quot;picking on the Jews&quot; is so ignorant and absolutely incorrect. PETA and other animal advocates don&#039;t give a damn if you are Jewish, Hindu, Muslim or Moses - Bringing unnecessary pain and suffering to animals is WRONG, as well as the mistreatment of employees, the hiring of illegal workers so they can be paid less, abused and treated like dirt. Oh yes, AgriProcessors needs your defense - looks as if the major part of these comments would eat anything an Orthodox rabbi told them was kosher. Very sad, and a blight on our Jewish traditions of compassion to animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What shameful comments by the Jewish community in regard to still blaming the messenger, PETA, instead of the guilty, for the obscene cruelty to animals that existed in this hell hole, so-called &#8220;kosher slaughterhouse.&#8221; Many Jews are appalled at the lack of compassion for helpless animals shown by the broad Jewish community, and I am one of them. Always accusing animal advocates for &#8220;picking on the Jews&#8221; is so ignorant and absolutely incorrect. PETA and other animal advocates don&#8217;t give a damn if you are Jewish, Hindu, Muslim or Moses &#8211; Bringing unnecessary pain and suffering to animals is WRONG, as well as the mistreatment of employees, the hiring of illegal workers so they can be paid less, abused and treated like dirt. Oh yes, AgriProcessors needs your defense &#8211; looks as if the major part of these comments would eat anything an Orthodox rabbi told them was kosher. Very sad, and a blight on our Jewish traditions of compassion to animals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rabbi Shmuel</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12871</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Shmuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12871</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ranging from the persecuted panic to the phenominally ignorant to the poetically philosophical&quot;

Wow - what a pompous and pathetically prolix attempt to be patronizing and to pander to the pampered, proud and the prosperous.

Look Ben - your trademark smarminess is duly noted and to be expected.  What I find curious however is your own double standard - you profess to have an &quot;I do my thing - you do your thing and if we meet it&#039;s beautiful&quot; type of headspace. But beyond Ortho-bashing, what do you offer? It seems it&#039;s your way or the highway - that anyone who dares disagree with you becomes the target of your contempt and derision. That&#039;s hardly a &quot;live and let live&quot; deal - you have your opinion they have theirs - you see this debacle through your prism and experience and they through theirs. Carful now - when you start with the &quot;I&#039;m right, they&#039;re wrong&quot; mentality you end up sounding like just as much of
fundamentalist as they do - Heaven forfend!

More critically howver, as the last letter writer brought up, you&#039;re basically beating a dead horse. But last week, a nice young guy, not much older than your YCT Food Conference shochet - who was shechting locally raised birds for the hundreds of visitors he hosted weekly (how many guests- and I don&#039;t mean friends - have you hosted in the last week?) and whose wife was baking local breads to feed those in need (appx 800 per week) were brutally and savagely murdered - but not a peep from you. But the opportunity to regurgitate last week&#039;s lunch about Rubashkin kicks you into a frenetic high gear. Strange days indeed! Maybe your hyperbolic Palestinian reference runs deeper than even you are aware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ranging from the persecuted panic to the phenominally ignorant to the poetically philosophical&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow &#8211; what a pompous and pathetically prolix attempt to be patronizing and to pander to the pampered, proud and the prosperous.</p>
<p>Look Ben &#8211; your trademark smarminess is duly noted and to be expected.  What I find curious however is your own double standard &#8211; you profess to have an &#8220;I do my thing &#8211; you do your thing and if we meet it&#8217;s beautiful&#8221; type of headspace. But beyond Ortho-bashing, what do you offer? It seems it&#8217;s your way or the highway &#8211; that anyone who dares disagree with you becomes the target of your contempt and derision. That&#8217;s hardly a &#8220;live and let live&#8221; deal &#8211; you have your opinion they have theirs &#8211; you see this debacle through your prism and experience and they through theirs. Carful now &#8211; when you start with the &#8220;I&#8217;m right, they&#8217;re wrong&#8221; mentality you end up sounding like just as much of<br />
fundamentalist as they do &#8211; Heaven forfend!</p>
<p>More critically howver, as the last letter writer brought up, you&#8217;re basically beating a dead horse. But last week, a nice young guy, not much older than your YCT Food Conference shochet &#8211; who was shechting locally raised birds for the hundreds of visitors he hosted weekly (how many guests- and I don&#8217;t mean friends &#8211; have you hosted in the last week?) and whose wife was baking local breads to feed those in need (appx 800 per week) were brutally and savagely murdered &#8211; but not a peep from you. But the opportunity to regurgitate last week&#8217;s lunch about Rubashkin kicks you into a frenetic high gear. Strange days indeed! Maybe your hyperbolic Palestinian reference runs deeper than even you are aware.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: patti</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12860</link>
		<dc:creator>patti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 07:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12860</guid>
		<description>the issue is not merely that rubashkin&#039;s hired undocumented immigrant workers. if press reports have been accurate, they had obviously underage employees on the slaughtering floor, regularly had employees working up to 18-hour shifts 6 days a week, and sent injured employees directly from the emergency room back to the plant floor with just-stitched, still-bleeding wounds, among other egregious examples of employee mistreatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the issue is not merely that rubashkin&#8217;s hired undocumented immigrant workers. if press reports have been accurate, they had obviously underage employees on the slaughtering floor, regularly had employees working up to 18-hour shifts 6 days a week, and sent injured employees directly from the emergency room back to the plant floor with just-stitched, still-bleeding wounds, among other egregious examples of employee mistreatment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Shmethicist</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12859</link>
		<dc:creator>The Shmethicist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 06:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12859</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the shmethical issues that Ben raises at the end of this post.  

At the same time, it&#039;s important that we be clear-eyed in any soul-searching we take on. 

This country &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97700373&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;routinely makes a show of punishing undocumented workers - while letting the companies that profit from their labor remain in a position to continue illegal practices&lt;/a&gt;.  If we are seeing a move to holding those with greater power responsible, that&#039;s not a bad thing - even if one of the first cases involves a Jew.

Moreover, &lt;a href=&quot;http://iowaindependent.com/5235/agriprocessors-charged-with-9000-child-labor-law-violations&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the case against Agriprocessors includes over 9,000 incidents of child labor violations&lt;/a&gt;.  That&#039;s pretty significant, and much more egregious than just &quot;looking the other way&quot; when a potential employee is undocumented.  

So yes, if I knew that any food source had those kind of processes, I would boycott it.  Just like I didn&#039;t eat &lt;a href=&quot;http://jcarrot.org/got-a-food-question-ask-the-shmethicist/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;that snickers bar my neighbor offered me, filched from her kid&#039;s halloween candy&lt;/a&gt;.

So do I respond to this case differently because the alleged perpetrators are Jewish - and because the crime is directly linked to Jewish religious practice?  Well, perhaps it&#039;s time to recall the old-school &lt;b&gt;Hebrew National&lt;/b&gt; commercials:  we answer to a higher authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the shmethical issues that Ben raises at the end of this post.  </p>
<p>At the same time, it&#8217;s important that we be clear-eyed in any soul-searching we take on. </p>
<p>This country <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97700373" rel="nofollow">routinely makes a show of punishing undocumented workers &#8211; while letting the companies that profit from their labor remain in a position to continue illegal practices</a>.  If we are seeing a move to holding those with greater power responsible, that&#8217;s not a bad thing &#8211; even if one of the first cases involves a Jew.</p>
<p>Moreover, <a href="http://iowaindependent.com/5235/agriprocessors-charged-with-9000-child-labor-law-violations" rel="nofollow">the case against Agriprocessors includes over 9,000 incidents of child labor violations</a>.  That&#8217;s pretty significant, and much more egregious than just &#8220;looking the other way&#8221; when a potential employee is undocumented.  </p>
<p>So yes, if I knew that any food source had those kind of processes, I would boycott it.  Just like I didn&#8217;t eat <a href="http://jcarrot.org/got-a-food-question-ask-the-shmethicist/" rel="nofollow">that snickers bar my neighbor offered me, filched from her kid&#8217;s halloween candy</a>.</p>
<p>So do I respond to this case differently because the alleged perpetrators are Jewish &#8211; and because the crime is directly linked to Jewish religious practice?  Well, perhaps it&#8217;s time to recall the old-school <b>Hebrew National</b> commercials:  we answer to a higher authority.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fern</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12840</link>
		<dc:creator>Fern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12840</guid>
		<description>I condemn what happened at the Rubashkin plant in the harshest terms possible, and don&#039;t think the government raid had anything to do with a war on kashrut.

That being said, there is a double standard being applied. I work in HR and know that it is nearly impossible to not hire illegal aliens in certain industries. The documents illegal aliens have are really, really good. Add into that mix low level managers actively helping illegal aliens get hired, and sometimes all I can do is throw my hands up in the air. Likewise, the rules for what can and cannot be deducted from a paycheck are tricky, and easy to violate. I would venture to guess that everyone who reads this blog has had something improper done with their paycheck at least once in their working lives. My husband works for a large company and I can tick off five things that I know their HR department has done improperly just off the top of my head. You would think that large corporations would have more sophisticated HR departments, but the laws are so complex and constantly changing, that it is impossible to be perfect all of the time.

I&#039;m not saying that all this means that Rubashkin&#039;s should be let off the hook. I am saying that other companies should be held to the same standard. Every industry that relies on minimum or low wage workers is hiring illegals. And any company with more than one employee has done something improper with their payroll.

What I really find ridiculous is the customer &quot;outrage.&quot; I guarantee you that if you eat food that you did not grow yourself, you have supported businesses that know or should have known that they hired illegal aliens. Farms, meat packing plants, food processing factories, restaurants. All of them are huge illegal alien magnets. If you are really serious about the issues surrounding the Rubashkin controversy, grow all of your own food. Otherwise your outrage is just talk and no walk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I condemn what happened at the Rubashkin plant in the harshest terms possible, and don&#8217;t think the government raid had anything to do with a war on kashrut.</p>
<p>That being said, there is a double standard being applied. I work in HR and know that it is nearly impossible to not hire illegal aliens in certain industries. The documents illegal aliens have are really, really good. Add into that mix low level managers actively helping illegal aliens get hired, and sometimes all I can do is throw my hands up in the air. Likewise, the rules for what can and cannot be deducted from a paycheck are tricky, and easy to violate. I would venture to guess that everyone who reads this blog has had something improper done with their paycheck at least once in their working lives. My husband works for a large company and I can tick off five things that I know their HR department has done improperly just off the top of my head. You would think that large corporations would have more sophisticated HR departments, but the laws are so complex and constantly changing, that it is impossible to be perfect all of the time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that all this means that Rubashkin&#8217;s should be let off the hook. I am saying that other companies should be held to the same standard. Every industry that relies on minimum or low wage workers is hiring illegals. And any company with more than one employee has done something improper with their payroll.</p>
<p>What I really find ridiculous is the customer &#8220;outrage.&#8221; I guarantee you that if you eat food that you did not grow yourself, you have supported businesses that know or should have known that they hired illegal aliens. Farms, meat packing plants, food processing factories, restaurants. All of them are huge illegal alien magnets. If you are really serious about the issues surrounding the Rubashkin controversy, grow all of your own food. Otherwise your outrage is just talk and no walk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kirby</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12839</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12839</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m (modern) orthodox, and I hear opinions like the ones you selected from this letter going around all of the time, from totally nutty (though I judge no man!) to rightly critical of knee jerk liberalism.  I keep kosher, I&#039;m really liberal in comparison to most of my fellow congregants, and I used to live about 15 miles from Postville, IA.  I don&#039;t want to see Postville suffer, neither immigrant workers, the Jews who moved there to support the processing plant or the long-time residents.  I also think it&#039;s true that Orthodox Jews, all Jews, are subject to a high standard of ethical behavior, whether we like it or not.  So it becomes our job to live up to that standard. Standard Operating Procedure for large corporations or not, the Rubashkin family messed up.
They should be held accountable. 
This isn&#039;t anti-Semitism.  The entire meat and poultry industry&#039;s chickens (pardon the pun) are coming home to roost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m (modern) orthodox, and I hear opinions like the ones you selected from this letter going around all of the time, from totally nutty (though I judge no man!) to rightly critical of knee jerk liberalism.  I keep kosher, I&#8217;m really liberal in comparison to most of my fellow congregants, and I used to live about 15 miles from Postville, IA.  I don&#8217;t want to see Postville suffer, neither immigrant workers, the Jews who moved there to support the processing plant or the long-time residents.  I also think it&#8217;s true that Orthodox Jews, all Jews, are subject to a high standard of ethical behavior, whether we like it or not.  So it becomes our job to live up to that standard. Standard Operating Procedure for large corporations or not, the Rubashkin family messed up.<br />
They should be held accountable.<br />
This isn&#8217;t anti-Semitism.  The entire meat and poultry industry&#8217;s chickens (pardon the pun) are coming home to roost.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12831</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12831</guid>
		<description>well, I was with you all the way until your last paragraph. what does this have to do with Palestinians?  I guess you were reaching for something so &lt;i&gt;opposite&lt;/i&gt; that your meaning was clear, but all it did was make me wonder if you think Palestinians don&#039;t like kosher meat?  Probably a lot of Palestians living in the states buy Agri products to help them eat halal!  Maybe that&#039;s an angle we can investigate further - how do halal meat eaters feel about the Agri situation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, I was with you all the way until your last paragraph. what does this have to do with Palestinians?  I guess you were reaching for something so <i>opposite</i> that your meaning was clear, but all it did was make me wonder if you think Palestinians don&#8217;t like kosher meat?  Probably a lot of Palestians living in the states buy Agri products to help them eat halal!  Maybe that&#8217;s an angle we can investigate further &#8211; how do halal meat eaters feel about the Agri situation?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: marmar1028</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12830</link>
		<dc:creator>marmar1028</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12830</guid>
		<description>(edit)
By commandment, I meant halakhic tradition ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(edit)<br />
By commandment, I meant halakhic tradition <img src='http://jcarrot.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gersh</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/comment-page-1#comment-12829</link>
		<dc:creator>Gersh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/a-view-of-the-victims-of-the-war-on-kosher/#comment-12829</guid>
		<description>What makes the &quot;right back atcha&quot; fellow think that every worker in kosher restaurants is documented and paid a living wage?

Also, remember what happened the last time Jews cried out for meat? :--)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes the &#8220;right back atcha&#8221; fellow think that every worker in kosher restaurants is documented and paid a living wage?</p>
<p>Also, remember what happened the last time Jews cried out for meat? :&#8211;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

