Comments on: Bravo for liberated day school teacher: “Bacon’s delish” http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Mon, 21 May 2012 04:07:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Deborah Goldbaum http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-6027 Deborah Goldbaum Sat, 03 May 2008 12:31:12 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-6027 I am having a bit of a hard time with these responses. Many people are objecting to the idea of "choice" with a modern sensibility. I would argue that choice is perhaps not the best word to use in this circumstance. Is it not a basic tenet of Judaism to question and grapple with the commandments in the Torah? Perhaps she will later move a bit further back into the realm of what we are calling Judaism, but I would argue she is living out a basic principle of Jewish identity. As someone who often grapples with the teachings of our tradition, I find value in that. I am having a bit of a hard time with these responses. Many people are objecting to the idea of “choice” with a modern sensibility. I would argue that choice is perhaps not the best word to use in this circumstance. Is it not a basic tenet of Judaism to question and grapple with the commandments in the Torah? Perhaps she will later move a bit further back into the realm of what we are calling Judaism, but I would argue she is living out a basic principle of Jewish identity. As someone who often grapples with the teachings of our tradition, I find value in that.

]]> By: CE http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-4696 CE Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:00:22 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-4696 If it doesn't speak to you, find a new entry point and try it again. The fact is, we are Jews, and we ARE different, Thank G-d. Keeping kosher is supposed to separate us, because we are a holy nation. Each time I schlep along a cheese sandwich to a conference when everyone else is eating a gourmet, free lunch, I am saying that I am above raw desire. I have self-control and don't give in to my physical desire to eat what everyone else is eating just because it is delicious and convenient. I'll take my reward in olam-haba and not in the next five minutes. I am so sad that people think it's all about "choice" the way you have defined it. It IS all about choice - the choice the live as G-d intended, as a holy people and above the influence of carnal desire. If everyone Jewish subscribed to this philosophy, I can guarantee there won't be any Jews left in 50 years - our own people can finish what Hitler started... If it doesn’t speak to you, find a new entry point and try it again. The fact is, we are Jews, and we ARE different, Thank G-d. Keeping kosher is supposed to separate us, because we are a holy nation. Each time I schlep along a cheese sandwich to a conference when everyone else is eating a gourmet, free lunch, I am saying that I am above raw desire. I have self-control and don’t give in to my physical desire to eat what everyone else is eating just because it is delicious and convenient. I’ll take my reward in olam-haba and not in the next five minutes.

I am so sad that people think it’s all about “choice” the way you have defined it. It IS all about choice – the choice the live as G-d intended, as a holy people and above the influence of carnal desire. If everyone Jewish subscribed to this philosophy, I can guarantee there won’t be any Jews left in 50 years – our own people can finish what Hitler started…

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-3974 Leah Koenig Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:41:04 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-3974 I think this is a great post Ben. On the one hand, like anarchist lawyer (and for many of the same reasons), I completely disagree with you. It's also very different than my own experience with Jewish tradition (I had the opposite path of being not so observant, and then finding a lot of meaning in a tradition I grew up barely knowing), and therefore hard for me to truly understand what "Sarah" went through. But I really appreciate her story. In time, she may realize that she went further on the "non-observant" side than she wants, and recalibrate a bit. Perhaps, once she has time to breathe, she'll discover the many "yes-es" in Jewish tradition that Rabbi Shmuel alludes to and that Hazon works to bring out in the Jewish community. But I applaud her for not continuing to live within a spiritual paradigm that doesn't speak to her, and wish her much success and luck in finding something that does. I think this is a great post Ben. On the one hand, like anarchist lawyer (and for many of the same reasons), I completely disagree with you.

It’s also very different than my own experience with Jewish tradition (I had the opposite path of being not so observant, and then finding a lot of meaning in a tradition I grew up barely knowing), and therefore hard for me to truly understand what “Sarah” went through.

But I really appreciate her story. In time, she may realize that she went further on the “non-observant” side than she wants, and recalibrate a bit. Perhaps, once she has time to breathe, she’ll discover the many “yes-es” in Jewish tradition that Rabbi Shmuel alludes to and that Hazon works to bring out in the Jewish community. But I applaud her for not continuing to live within a spiritual paradigm that doesn’t speak to her, and wish her much success and luck in finding something that does.

]]> By: Rabbi Shmuel http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-3972 Rabbi Shmuel Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:07:22 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-3972 I found the posting extraordinarily tragic. “That “Sarah” is no longer a Jew but now a human being. I shudder when I think about the last group who thought the Jew were subhuman. Have we given Hitler yimach sh’mo his posthumous victory after all – seeing ourselves as he saw us. Say it ain’t so! The sad part is that the “Sarah’s” of the world only see the “don’t”s in Judaism and not the “dos” – don’t eat this, don’t do this, don’t marry this one, etc. It’s a pity she doesn’t experience the richness of a family life with Torah as it’s centerpiece, a tableful of guests each Shabbos and finding a sense of meaning beyond one’s immediate sensory and sensual pleasures (reading too much Hesse in high school does that to you). Yet such an outlook is the inevitable byproduct of the “do your own thing” mentality. We’ll do the Jewish thing at 9:00 a.m, the Buddha thing at 10:00 am. First it’s “write your own midrash.” Pretty soon it’s write your own Torah! Torah no longer has a rich timeless existence – it becomes a hollow template upon which the flavor du jour is impressed. Tisha B’Av is no longer the time to mourn the temple. Now it’s the time to mourn Darfur and the loss of the rain forest. Not that those things don’t deserve their due – it’s just a matter of perspective. Ironically, it’s that very same “I can do whatever I want whenever I want” headspace that got this planet into the very crisis that groups like Hazon are trying to remedy. Is this the new paradigm that is emerging? Seems to me pretty much like the same old same old. C’est domage. I found the posting extraordinarily tragic. “That “Sarah” is no longer a Jew but now a human being. I shudder when I think about the last group who thought the Jew were subhuman. Have we given Hitler yimach sh’mo his posthumous victory after all – seeing ourselves as he saw us. Say it ain’t so!
The sad part is that the “Sarah’s” of the world only see the “don’t”s in Judaism and not the “dos” – don’t eat this, don’t do this, don’t marry this one, etc. It’s a pity she doesn’t experience the richness of a family life with Torah as it’s centerpiece, a tableful of guests each Shabbos and finding a sense of meaning beyond one’s immediate sensory and sensual pleasures (reading too much Hesse in high school does that to you).
Yet such an outlook is the inevitable byproduct of the “do your own thing” mentality. We’ll do the Jewish thing at 9:00 a.m, the Buddha thing at 10:00 am. First it’s “write your own midrash.” Pretty soon it’s write your own Torah! Torah no longer has a rich timeless existence – it becomes a hollow template upon which the flavor du jour is impressed. Tisha B’Av is no longer the time to mourn the temple. Now it’s the time to mourn Darfur and the loss of the rain forest. Not that those things don’t deserve their due – it’s just a matter of perspective.
Ironically, it’s that very same “I can do whatever I want whenever I want” headspace that got this planet into the very crisis that groups like Hazon are trying to remedy. Is this the new paradigm that is emerging? Seems to me pretty much like the same old same old. C’est domage.

]]> By: Non-bacon eater http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-3971 Non-bacon eater Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:43:00 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-3971 I am not sure who actually penned this entry but I find it a bit disturbing. After attending the food conference and other Hazon events it seems to me that one of their main points is that Jews are different in many great ways and we need to celebrate that difference. I was most disturbed by this- "Biting into that hamburger, she was no longer a “Jew.” God bless her, she’s discovered that she’s just like everyone else." The reality is she is still a Jew- just one that chose to eat a non-kosher hamburger. Eating treyf doesn't take away your Judaism. I am not sure who actually penned this entry but I find it a bit disturbing. After attending the food conference and other Hazon events it seems to me that one of their main points is that Jews are different in many great ways and we need to celebrate that difference. I was most disturbed by this- “Biting into that hamburger, she was no longer a “Jew.” God bless her, she’s discovered that she’s just like everyone else.”
The reality is she is still a Jew- just one that chose to eat a non-kosher hamburger. Eating treyf doesn’t take away your Judaism.

]]> By: anarchist lawyer http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-3968 anarchist lawyer Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:24:45 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-3968 This is an excellent post. With respect, however, I completely disagree with you. I am a liberal Jew, nominally identifying with the Conservative movement, but not entirely. I agree that on the surface we live in a world in which Jews have choices. No one will cause us trouble in the temporal world if we break shabbes. We are free to live as halachicly as we want, or not. However, don't you think that you are missing the point of tradition and misunderstanding what freedom is, fundamentally? While freedom in the modern world may be all about "choice", don't you think that, as Jews, we have an obligation to think about freedom as it is applied in the modern world, in the old world, and in olam haba-ah? Don't you think we have an obligation to our forbears to respect the traditions of the past? Because, if we don't, they will be lost forever. I would argue that the "Sarah" in this article has lost something fundamental. She may have gained freedom in the modern sense, but she has lost her freedom to be a Jew in the company of her ancestors and those to come who view our commandments as something we don't exactly have a choice to follow (in the modern sense of the word "choice") but we have an obligation to follow if we value our tradition and our freedom to be a people apart, bringing the light of G-d into the world. This is an excellent post. With respect, however, I completely disagree with you. I am a liberal Jew, nominally identifying with the Conservative movement, but not entirely. I agree that on the surface we live in a world in which Jews have choices. No one will cause us trouble in the temporal world if we break shabbes. We are free to live as halachicly as we want, or not. However, don’t you think that you are missing the point of tradition and misunderstanding what freedom is, fundamentally? While freedom in the modern world may be all about “choice”, don’t you think that, as Jews, we have an obligation to think about freedom as it is applied in the modern world, in the old world, and in olam haba-ah? Don’t you think we have an obligation to our forbears to respect the traditions of the past? Because, if we don’t, they will be lost forever. I would argue that the “Sarah” in this article has lost something fundamental. She may have gained freedom in the modern sense, but she has lost her freedom to be a Jew in the company of her ancestors and those to come who view our commandments as something we don’t exactly have a choice to follow (in the modern sense of the word “choice”) but we have an obligation to follow if we value our tradition and our freedom to be a people apart, bringing the light of G-d into the world.

]]> By: Isaac http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/comment-page-1#comment-3963 Isaac Sun, 13 Jan 2008 08:38:30 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/bravo-for-liberated-day-school-teacher-bacons-delish/#comment-3963 I really appreciate this post. Choice has become the organizing principle of our society, and now we can choose to negotiate our own Judaism. Something I struggle with, though, is how it wasn't really my choice to become Jewish. I was born that way. At its core, then, my Judaism is just a fact of nature, something already decided for me. Look, I'm not struggling to figure out my relationship to Islam or Buddhism. Judaism is my religious field for reasons that transcend choice. How would you deal with that? I really appreciate this post. Choice has become the organizing principle of our society, and now we can choose to negotiate our own Judaism.

Something I struggle with, though, is how it wasn’t really my choice to become Jewish. I was born that way. At its core, then, my Judaism is just a fact of nature, something already decided for me. Look, I’m not struggling to figure out my relationship to Islam or Buddhism. Judaism is my religious field for reasons that transcend choice. How would you deal with that?

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