Comments on: Could I play for the other team? http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:32:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Oogie http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-2047 Oogie Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:54:33 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-2047 As a farmer who raises animals and eats them you are all missing one big point. I work with a rare breed. I am actively trying to preserve a type of sheep that does well on pasture. But no matter how good a job I do breeding my animals there are always some that do not meet the needs of growing well on pasture or whose wool is not appropriate for my needs. There are not enough good farms to place them all in breeding homes and there are the old animals who have served their purpose but now need to make room for younger ones. I cannot eat the grasses, forbs and legumes in my pastures. If I had to try to survive on that I'd die, no human can eat what a sheep can eat. Yet sheep can turn inedible plants into something I can eat that is healthy and good for me. I owe my animals a lot and that includes making sure that when their final job comes, to feed me or my customers, that I make the transition as painless and humane as possible. The slaughterhouse I work with has worked with Temple Grandin to make sure the animals are not stressed. Stressed animals produce tough strong flavored bad tasting meat. Factory farming that produces grain fed animals can hide the stress effects on meat due to the higher fat content and different fat composition of their meat but grass finished animals will show up bad handling if they are stressed for even 15 minutes. Our pastures do not lend themselves to plowing and planting vegetable crops. We need them in permanent pasture to prevent soil erosion and other environmental problems so the best use of our farm is to produce meat animals. Go visit the farms that are producing your meat, talk to the farmers, accompany them to a slaughtering day and you may see that it is certainly possible to produce meat animals humanely and that we too care deeply for our charges. You might also like to look at Chef Dava's blog about slaughtering sheep. Back track from here: http://www.aspenpost.net/author/chef-dava As a farmer who raises animals and eats them you are all missing one big point. I work with a rare breed. I am actively trying to preserve a type of sheep that does well on pasture. But no matter how good a job I do breeding my animals there are always some that do not meet the needs of growing well on pasture or whose wool is not appropriate for my needs. There are not enough good farms to place them all in breeding homes and there are the old animals who have served their purpose but now need to make room for younger ones. I cannot eat the grasses, forbs and legumes in my pastures. If I had to try to survive on that I’d die, no human can eat what a sheep can eat. Yet sheep can turn inedible plants into something I can eat that is healthy and good for me. I owe my animals a lot and that includes making sure that when their final job comes, to feed me or my customers, that I make the transition as painless and humane as possible. The slaughterhouse I work with has worked with Temple Grandin to make sure the animals are not stressed. Stressed animals produce tough strong flavored bad tasting meat. Factory farming that produces grain fed animals can hide the stress effects on meat due to the higher fat content and different fat composition of their meat but grass finished animals will show up bad handling if they are stressed for even 15 minutes. Our pastures do not lend themselves to plowing and planting vegetable crops. We need them in permanent pasture to prevent soil erosion and other environmental problems so the best use of our farm is to produce meat animals. Go visit the farms that are producing your meat, talk to the farmers, accompany them to a slaughtering day and you may see that it is certainly possible to produce meat animals humanely and that we too care deeply for our charges.

You might also like to look at Chef Dava’s blog about slaughtering sheep. Back track from here:

http://www.aspenpost.net/author/chef-dava

]]> By: Becki http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1810 Becki Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:59:12 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1810 I am 45,and at 15 decided to stop eating meat. Living in Texas, home of the most awesome Bar B Q,that was hard.McD's also came out with a new hamburger that was the cold stuff on one side, and the hot stuff on another side of the carton. So the reason I gave up meat? No, PETA would not be proud of me. I had a teacher. She was from the Carribean. She had the most awesome glowing cinnamon colored skin. She was a neat lady too. Her baby was raised vegetarian like she was. I thought if I gave up meat, I could have great skin or be calm like she was. No luck..Then I was a hard core vegetarian, and it was "cred". There were druggies, hoes,flaming queens, but I was in the natural/peace , aka hippie group. But I never went back to eating meat. I don't consider myself vegetarian though. I will eat chicken soup, every so often. I don't care much for fish, except the G-fish our rebbetzin makes. i also love dairy things and am a closet cheese addict. I DO find eating meat a bit repulsive. I won't kiss my hubby if he ate meat recently.I am not good at cooking it, so it is usually eaten out. I raised my kids vegetarian until they were old enough to decide on their own.`And they have all picked meat. I am 45,and at 15 decided to stop eating meat. Living in Texas, home of the most awesome Bar B Q,that was hard.McD’s also came out with a new hamburger that was the cold stuff on one side, and the hot stuff on another side of the carton.
So the reason I gave up meat? No, PETA would not be proud of me. I had a teacher. She was from the Carribean. She had the most awesome glowing cinnamon colored skin. She was a neat lady too. Her baby was raised vegetarian like she was. I thought if I gave up meat, I could have great skin or be calm like she was. No luck..Then I was a hard core vegetarian, and it was “cred”. There were druggies, hoes,flaming queens, but I was in the natural/peace , aka hippie group.
But I never went back to eating meat. I don’t consider myself vegetarian though. I will eat chicken soup, every so often. I don’t care much for fish, except the G-fish our rebbetzin makes. i also love dairy things and am a closet cheese addict.
I DO find eating meat a bit repulsive. I won’t kiss my hubby if he ate meat recently.I am not good at cooking it, so it is usually eaten out.
I raised my kids vegetarian until they were old enough to decide on their own.`And they have all picked meat.

]]> By: Alix Wall http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1795 Alix Wall Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:59:40 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1795 I appreciate the feedback. I could have said a lot more on the topic, but in response to you Jackie and Michael, I do have a few points to make -- mainly on the health repercussions. I have long maintained a veggie diet is healthier. However, I've now seen studies in which all the heart disease and other things that come from eating too much meat comes from the hormones and anti-biotics that come from industrial farming. It has been studied and proven, I believe, that grass-fed beef is much healthier than the factory farmed variety. If I do eat it again, I know I won't eat it every day. Maybe it will only be once or twice a week. So I don't think my health will change dramatically. As for your point Michael, as a natural foods chef, I have to question your devotion to Morningstar Farms. While its products are tasty indeed, and to a veggie, can substitute for the real thing, have you ever looked at the ingredients? Those sausages and bacon strips (and most veggie interpretations of meat) have at least 45 chemicals and other things to make the soy matter look and taste and feel like meat. I strongly believe that we should be eating food in as close to its natural state as possible. Cooking is fine, but adding chemicals that you can't pronounce is not. I would argue that a piece of ethically-raised meat is healthier because of that. Last, your question about what myself 20 years earlier would think is an interesting one. I thought about it before responding. The truth is, I did some crazy, reckless things when I was that age, things that I look back on and say "was I crazy?" I have learned a lot in the past 20 years; that heavily processed foods aren't good for you is just one of them. One more point -- some studies are saying too much soy isn't good for you. It's all very confusing, I admit. But thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate the feedback. I could have said a lot more on the topic, but in response to you Jackie and Michael, I do have a few points to make — mainly on the health repercussions.
I have long maintained a veggie diet is healthier. However, I’ve now seen studies in which all the heart disease and other things that come from eating too much meat comes from the hormones and anti-biotics that come from industrial farming. It has been studied and proven, I believe, that grass-fed beef is much healthier than the factory farmed variety. If I do eat it again, I know I won’t eat it every day. Maybe it will only be once or twice a week. So I don’t think my health will change dramatically.
As for your point Michael, as a natural foods chef, I have to question your devotion to Morningstar Farms. While its products are tasty indeed, and to a veggie, can substitute for the real thing, have you ever looked at the ingredients? Those sausages and bacon strips (and most veggie interpretations of meat) have at least 45 chemicals and other things to make the soy matter look and taste and feel like meat. I strongly believe that we should be eating food in as close to its natural state as possible. Cooking is fine, but adding chemicals that you can’t pronounce is not. I would argue that a piece of ethically-raised meat is healthier because of that.
Last, your question about what myself 20 years earlier would think is an interesting one. I thought about it before responding. The truth is, I did some crazy, reckless things when I was that age, things that I look back on and say “was I crazy?” I have learned a lot in the past 20 years; that heavily processed foods aren’t good for you is just one of them.
One more point — some studies are saying too much soy isn’t good for you. It’s all very confusing, I admit. But thanks for all the feedback.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1793 Michael Croland Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:13:20 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1793 Great post, Alix. I think all vegetarians have thoughts about eating meat at least every once in a while. Here are some things I consider (besides images of cruelty to animals in factory farms and slaughterhouses) whenever I have thoughts like yours: * Even if animals were raised and slaughtered perfectly humanely, is it right to breed them en masse and have them live their existences from birth to death guided solely by humans' intentions to kill and eat them? Is that something you want to contribute to? * Do you feel healthier not having meat in your body? (And I'm sure you're well aware of the many health complications that arise from meat consumption.) * Would the younger you who went vegetarian in the first place look at you eating meat now and be horrified for compromising your ideals? Would the younger you from any time in the last 20 years be disappointed for giving up on what's become your "identity" when you don't feel there's any truly great need to do so? I don't mean to judge no matter what you choose, by the way. But when I ask myself questions like this, I always decide that I'm much happier not contributing to animal agriculture and meat consumption in any form ... I want no part in it. And when I have cravings for meat, I cook up some Gardenburger herb-encrusted cutlets or breakfast sausages, Morningstar Farms Meal Starters Steak Strips, or Gimme Lean, and the craving is satisfied! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Great post, Alix. I think all vegetarians have thoughts about eating meat at least every once in a while. Here are some things I consider (besides images of cruelty to animals in factory farms and slaughterhouses) whenever I have thoughts like yours:

* Even if animals were raised and slaughtered perfectly humanely, is it right to breed them en masse and have them live their existences from birth to death guided solely by humans’ intentions to kill and eat them? Is that something you want to contribute to?
* Do you feel healthier not having meat in your body? (And I’m sure you’re well aware of the many health complications that arise from meat consumption.)
* Would the younger you who went vegetarian in the first place look at you eating meat now and be horrified for compromising your ideals? Would the younger you from any time in the last 20 years be disappointed for giving up on what’s become your “identity” when you don’t feel there’s any truly great need to do so?

I don’t mean to judge no matter what you choose, by the way. But when I ask myself questions like this, I always decide that I’m much happier not contributing to animal agriculture and meat consumption in any form … I want no part in it. And when I have cravings for meat, I cook up some Gardenburger herb-encrusted cutlets or breakfast sausages, Morningstar Farms Meal Starters Steak Strips, or Gimme Lean, and the craving is satisfied!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

]]> By: Jackie Topol http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1792 Jackie Topol Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:56:25 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1792 Alix- I think it's great that you are questioning this. As a vegetarian of 7 years who is currently on her way to going vegan, I have struggled with these questions too. I am currently a fellow at Adamah, where I am working as an organic farmer. I have also taken part in collecting eggs from our hens and milking our goats. From my experience here I have realized that it is not right to use animals just for their eggs, milk, or more importantly, their meat. I look at animals as beautiful, living creatures and I do not believe in exploiting them for my "benefit". The reason I put benefit in quotes is because if we look at the ramifications of eating meat, we might want to think again. For one, I urge you to think about the environmental effects. Did you know that factory farming causes 18% of greenhouse gases? (that number is from a UN study) If you choose to not eat factory farmed meat that certainly helps in terms of your eco-foot print, but you should also think about the physical repurcussions that may occur from meat consumption. (The American Dietetic Association states that vegetarians have “lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; … lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer”) If you have any further questions about being/staying veg feel free to contact me. Alix-
I think it’s great that you are questioning this. As a vegetarian of 7 years who is currently on her way to going vegan, I have struggled with these questions too. I am currently a fellow at Adamah, where I am working as an organic farmer. I have also taken part in collecting eggs from our hens and milking our goats. From my experience here I have realized that it is not right to use animals just for their eggs, milk, or more importantly, their meat. I look at animals as beautiful, living creatures and I do not believe in exploiting them for my “benefit”. The reason I put benefit in quotes is because if we look at the ramifications of eating meat, we might want to think again. For one, I urge you to think about the environmental effects. Did you know that factory farming causes 18% of greenhouse gases? (that number is from a UN study) If you choose to not eat factory farmed meat that certainly helps in terms of your eco-foot print, but you should also think about the physical repurcussions that may occur from meat consumption. (The American Dietetic Association states that vegetarians have “lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; … lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer”) If you have any further questions about being/staying veg feel free to contact me.

]]> By: Nelly Altenburger http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1790 Nelly Altenburger Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:59:01 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/could-i-play-for-the-other-team/#comment-1790 I have been a vegetarian for 13 years, and cook meat for my husband, which sets my husband in the category of "lucky", as he says. Yet I cannot see myself going back to eating meat, and still feel uncomfortable cutting chicken and so on. And, of course, I do not taste it while I cook. So my identity is that of a vegetarian, but I am less orthodox than you - I will eat in dishes that have been used for meat. I have been a vegetarian for 13 years, and cook meat for my husband, which sets my husband in the category of “lucky”, as he says. Yet I cannot see myself going back to eating meat, and still feel uncomfortable cutting chicken and so on. And, of course, I do not taste it while I cook. So my identity is that of a vegetarian, but I am less orthodox than you - I will eat in dishes that have been used for meat.

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