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	<title>Comments on: Food fight over Tzedek hechsher</title>
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	<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher</link>
	<description>Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues</description>
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		<title>By: Penina</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-1670</link>
		<dc:creator>Penina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-1670</guid>
		<description>I applaud Jewish Conservative Rabbis for creating a Hechsher Tzedek or justice certification that sets humane labor standards for kosher meatpacking plants. However, it is unfortunate that this certification does NOT include standards for humane treatment of animals. 

Worker mistreatment and unsafe working conditions at AgriProcessors, the largest glatt kosher slaughterhouse and meatpacking plant in the world, prompted this action. In addition, in 2004, egregious inhumane animal abuse was documented at this same AgriProcessors plant, subsequently confirmed by the USDA. Clearly these atrocities violate the Jewish mandate in the Torah against tza’ar ba’alei hayyim, causing unnecessary pain to animals.

In fact, “Kosher” actually means “fit” or “proper.” Thus, if the meat we consume is truly fit or Kosher, we must ensure that the animals that supplied that meat live and die humanely.

In my opinion, guidelines for humane Kosher Shechita should include: 1) waiting until lack of movement before moving or removing organs from animals; 2) banning the use of electric prods; 3) providing a calm atmosphere for the animals; 4) using captive bolting (fatal electrical shock) in a timely fashion when Shechita fails to produce rapid unconsciousness (making meat from these animals un-Kosher); 5) requiring the use of an upright pen for animal restraint (such as the Grandin pen); 6) prohibiting the practice of shackling and hoisting and the use of inversion pens (currently stated to be a violation of Jewish law in the Conservative Teshuvah authored by Elliot Dorff and Joel Roth, &quot;Shackling and Hoisting&quot; YD 6.2000); 7) re-considering the use of pre- Shechita stunning (halakhically reasonable grounds for pre- Shechita stunning are presented in the Conservative Teshuvah authored by Mayer E. Rabinowitz, &quot;A Stunning Matter: Stunning and Bolting After Shehitah.&quot; YD 27:1.2001a).

Implementation of guidelines for humane Shichita will ensure that we observe the spirit of the law as well as the letter of law when certifying meat as kosher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud Jewish Conservative Rabbis for creating a Hechsher Tzedek or justice certification that sets humane labor standards for kosher meatpacking plants. However, it is unfortunate that this certification does NOT include standards for humane treatment of animals. </p>
<p>Worker mistreatment and unsafe working conditions at AgriProcessors, the largest glatt kosher slaughterhouse and meatpacking plant in the world, prompted this action. In addition, in 2004, egregious inhumane animal abuse was documented at this same AgriProcessors plant, subsequently confirmed by the USDA. Clearly these atrocities violate the Jewish mandate in the Torah against tza’ar ba’alei hayyim, causing unnecessary pain to animals.</p>
<p>In fact, “Kosher” actually means “fit” or “proper.” Thus, if the meat we consume is truly fit or Kosher, we must ensure that the animals that supplied that meat live and die humanely.</p>
<p>In my opinion, guidelines for humane Kosher Shechita should include: 1) waiting until lack of movement before moving or removing organs from animals; 2) banning the use of electric prods; 3) providing a calm atmosphere for the animals; 4) using captive bolting (fatal electrical shock) in a timely fashion when Shechita fails to produce rapid unconsciousness (making meat from these animals un-Kosher); 5) requiring the use of an upright pen for animal restraint (such as the Grandin pen); 6) prohibiting the practice of shackling and hoisting and the use of inversion pens (currently stated to be a violation of Jewish law in the Conservative Teshuvah authored by Elliot Dorff and Joel Roth, &#8220;Shackling and Hoisting&#8221; YD 6.2000); 7) re-considering the use of pre- Shechita stunning (halakhically reasonable grounds for pre- Shechita stunning are presented in the Conservative Teshuvah authored by Mayer E. Rabinowitz, &#8220;A Stunning Matter: Stunning and Bolting After Shehitah.&#8221; YD 27:1.2001a).</p>
<p>Implementation of guidelines for humane Shichita will ensure that we observe the spirit of the law as well as the letter of law when certifying meat as kosher.</p>
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		<title>By: Yael</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-1504</link>
		<dc:creator>Yael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-1504</guid>
		<description>Blog didn&#039;t come out as a link, but clicking on my name will take you to the right place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blog didn&#8217;t come out as a link, but clicking on my name will take you to the right place.</p>
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		<title>By: Yael</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-1503</link>
		<dc:creator>Yael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-1503</guid>
		<description>Rabbi Allen now has a &lt;a&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt; committed to the exploration of the Hechsher Tzedek initiative undertaken by the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism. People will be able to give their opinions and state their concerns directly to him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Allen now has a <a>blog</a> committed to the exploration of the Hechsher Tzedek initiative undertaken by the Rabbinical Assembly and the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism. People will be able to give their opinions and state their concerns directly to him.</p>
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		<title>By: William Jacobson</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-1267</link>
		<dc:creator>William Jacobson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 19:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-1267</guid>
		<description>If you have seen the videos of this hideous caricature of righteousness found at http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/ I am at a loss that first concern of the conservatives is for working conditions.   But I am more at a loss that the observant are more concerned for their authority than they are for the reputation of God&#039;s name, as they claim to speak for Him.  For God&#039;s sake, this evil perpetrated in the name of kashrut screams for intervention.

So you don&#039;t want the &quot;self righteous breast beating and chest thumping?&quot;  Then clean up your act.  What do you think I will believe, my own eyes or your report from your summer field trip?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have seen the videos of this hideous caricature of righteousness found at <a href="http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/" rel="nofollow">http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/</a> I am at a loss that first concern of the conservatives is for working conditions.   But I am more at a loss that the observant are more concerned for their authority than they are for the reputation of God&#8217;s name, as they claim to speak for Him.  For God&#8217;s sake, this evil perpetrated in the name of kashrut screams for intervention.</p>
<p>So you don&#8217;t want the &#8220;self righteous breast beating and chest thumping?&#8221;  Then clean up your act.  What do you think I will believe, my own eyes or your report from your summer field trip?</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Shmuel</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-310</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Shmuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-310</guid>
		<description>&quot;Really, is the halacha all that murky? There’s ample material in the Torah on how Jews should treat employees. There is also some evidence on how Agriprocessors, manufacturers of Aaron’s Best brand, have treated their workers, many of them immigrants.&quot;

What a specious argument. The clarity of the halacha has nothing to do whether the kashrus standards should be recast. A boycott? Most of the people boycotting don&#039;t eat kosher now so how would it help?

also would the &quot;some evidence&quot; consist of the ongoing hatchet job vendetta the Jewish lite news rags have against Aaron&#039;s? First try to nail them on alleged environmental violations. Then let&#039;s move to allegations of cruelty. Then onto labor violations. Then when nothing else sticks try anti-trust violations. It&#039;s beginning to sound like a well orchestrated smear campaign.

I went out to Postville this summer and toured the plant on my own terms with no restrictions on what I could see, do or who I could talk to. I found much of the media to be spin and innuendo and no more. Can anyone here say the same? Or do we trot out the well worn PETA videos and some third hand lashon hara and start the self righteous breast beating and chest thumping again? Are people arguing from knowledge, armed with facts or are they just ranting and venting. One can only wonder. 

I may not be a huge fan of Gershon Tennenbaum, but as a rav and an organic food grower (and having been consulted on eco-kashrus in its infancy) , I&#039;m certainly not convinced that the hechsher tzedek does not have an underlying ulterior motive to strip control of the definitions of kashrus from Torah Jews - much as &quot;mikveh&quot; has suddenly been &quot;rediscovered&quot; and made &quot;relevant&quot;.
If you don&#039;t like their business practices or environmental policies, your remedy is to not buy their meat not redefining kashrus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Really, is the halacha all that murky? There’s ample material in the Torah on how Jews should treat employees. There is also some evidence on how Agriprocessors, manufacturers of Aaron’s Best brand, have treated their workers, many of them immigrants.&#8221;</p>
<p>What a specious argument. The clarity of the halacha has nothing to do whether the kashrus standards should be recast. A boycott? Most of the people boycotting don&#8217;t eat kosher now so how would it help?</p>
<p>also would the &#8220;some evidence&#8221; consist of the ongoing hatchet job vendetta the Jewish lite news rags have against Aaron&#8217;s? First try to nail them on alleged environmental violations. Then let&#8217;s move to allegations of cruelty. Then onto labor violations. Then when nothing else sticks try anti-trust violations. It&#8217;s beginning to sound like a well orchestrated smear campaign.</p>
<p>I went out to Postville this summer and toured the plant on my own terms with no restrictions on what I could see, do or who I could talk to. I found much of the media to be spin and innuendo and no more. Can anyone here say the same? Or do we trot out the well worn PETA videos and some third hand lashon hara and start the self righteous breast beating and chest thumping again? Are people arguing from knowledge, armed with facts or are they just ranting and venting. One can only wonder. </p>
<p>I may not be a huge fan of Gershon Tennenbaum, but as a rav and an organic food grower (and having been consulted on eco-kashrus in its infancy) , I&#8217;m certainly not convinced that the hechsher tzedek does not have an underlying ulterior motive to strip control of the definitions of kashrus from Torah Jews &#8211; much as &#8220;mikveh&#8221; has suddenly been &#8220;rediscovered&#8221; and made &#8220;relevant&#8221;.<br />
If you don&#8217;t like their business practices or environmental policies, your remedy is to not buy their meat not redefining kashrus.</p>
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		<title>By: feygele</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>feygele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-226</guid>
		<description>There are well-documented examples of Jews who have kept kosher all their lives, who are now seniors and cannot afford the oh-so-expensive kosher meat, so are now buying their chickens elsewhere. I don&#039;t think it would be hard to get momentum in a boycott, though it would have to be inclusive of many issues (the high price, workers rights, etc). ... But I&#039;m not sure how much support there would be from non-Jews. (Though there was an article in the Seattle Post-Intelligence in December &#039;06 about the raising trend of non-Jews buying kosher products, including meat.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are well-documented examples of Jews who have kept kosher all their lives, who are now seniors and cannot afford the oh-so-expensive kosher meat, so are now buying their chickens elsewhere. I don&#8217;t think it would be hard to get momentum in a boycott, though it would have to be inclusive of many issues (the high price, workers rights, etc). &#8230; But I&#8217;m not sure how much support there would be from non-Jews. (Though there was an article in the Seattle Post-Intelligence in December &#8217;06 about the raising trend of non-Jews buying kosher products, including meat.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Murane</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Murane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>A kosher boycott? That&#039;s fascinating! As the kosher meat market grows &lt;a href=&quot;http://jcarrot.org/philo-semitic-taste-buds/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bigger and bigger to reach a $10 million industry&lt;/a&gt;, would a successful boycott really be possible? 

And would a bunch of non-Jewish eaters support or not care about a tzedek hekhsher? I am particularly curious if non-Jewish boycott pressure on the Glatt industry would only cause the community to reject even further the concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A kosher boycott? That&#8217;s fascinating! As the kosher meat market grows <a href="http://jcarrot.org/philo-semitic-taste-buds/" rel="nofollow">bigger and bigger to reach a $10 million industry</a>, would a successful boycott really be possible? </p>
<p>And would a bunch of non-Jewish eaters support or not care about a tzedek hekhsher? I am particularly curious if non-Jewish boycott pressure on the Glatt industry would only cause the community to reject even further the concept.</p>
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		<title>By: feygele</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/comment-page-1#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>feygele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/food-fight-over-tzedek-hechsher/#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Maybe the solution is to see the forward-thinking, Tsedek Hekhsher-supporting Jews of NY (and other major cities) stage a full-blown &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ajhs.org/publications/chapters/chapter.cfm?documentID=197&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kosher Meat Boycott, as seen in 1902&lt;/a&gt;! Come on, you know you want to boycott - if enough people stop buying kosher meat, and start insisting on an ethical hekhsher, the butcher shops will have to cave and support the new hekhsher in order to stay in business, forcing the hands of the Orthodox rabbis to support the hekhsher. It could work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the solution is to see the forward-thinking, Tsedek Hekhsher-supporting Jews of NY (and other major cities) stage a full-blown <a href="http://www.ajhs.org/publications/chapters/chapter.cfm?documentID=197" rel="nofollow">Kosher Meat Boycott, as seen in 1902</a>! Come on, you know you want to boycott &#8211; if enough people stop buying kosher meat, and start insisting on an ethical hekhsher, the butcher shops will have to cave and support the new hekhsher in order to stay in business, forcing the hands of the Orthodox rabbis to support the hekhsher. It could work&#8230;</p>
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