Comments on: From the Farm to the Dinner Plate: The Story of the Goat Meat http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:18:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Jerry http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3750 Jerry Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:12:34 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3750 Baby goats are called "kids" for a good reason. They behave as children. They are curious, friendly, and good companions. Killing and eating them for any reason in any way is painfully close to cannibalism. Animal sacrifices and the ceremonial killing and preparation of aninals for eating are ungodly. Evolve to plant based nutrition. It will be good for you and even better for the animals. Baby goats are called “kids” for a good reason. They behave as children. They are curious, friendly, and good companions. Killing and eating them for any reason in any way is painfully close to cannibalism. Animal sacrifices and the ceremonial killing and preparation of aninals for eating are ungodly. Evolve to plant based nutrition. It will be good for you and even better for the animals.

]]> By: Seth Mandel http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3701 Seth Mandel Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:26:36 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3701 For all who read this, I wanted to add something that I think I did not make sufficiently clear at the conference. The OU cares very much about humane treatment of animals, but the only place where we have any influence is the slaughterhouse. We have worked and are continuing to work closely with the USDA and with Dr. Temple Grandin to ensure that all slaughterhouses where OU certified meat is produced meet humane standards; we have implemented changes in several cases and will be implementing more. However, the OU has no say on what goes on in farms. We are not involved in decisions by meat producers regarding the source of their animals. Even if the OU were to go to farmers to urge more humane treatment of animals, we would be ignored, since the entire kosher market is a tiny percentage of total American demand, and if the farmers could not sell to kosher producers, they would sell to non-kosher producers. The end result would be a significant shortage of kosher meat and a significant rise in prices of the kosher meat available. However, there is free-range, antibiotic meat available, some from the United States (in small quantities so far) and some from South America. Rubashkin has started selling natural, free-range beef, and there are three smaller producers. Everyone should support such developments and, if buying meat, vote with their pocketbooks for the better product. Producers will be happy to increase production to meet demand and prices will ultimately fall. One other comment, though not related to my function: given that so many people profess to be "into Kabbala" nowadays, I was surprised to see that no one mentioned the Kabbalistic view of meat. Kabbala accepts the idea of reincarnation, although there are various differences among the M'kubbalim about how details. The idea that an animal may represent the reincarnation of a (previously) human soul is accepted by most M'kubbalim, and according to Kabbala, shechita is the way to fix whatever needs to be fixed for that soul, since that way the animal's demise is in accordance with God's law. I hope I have given enough information that everyone can make their informed decision about what meat to buy and whether they want to eat meat at all. In a perfect world, I would argue that it is proper for Jews to eat meat occasionally. But we live in an imperfect world, and always will. For all who read this, I wanted to add something that I think I did not make sufficiently clear at the conference.
The OU cares very much about humane treatment of animals, but the only place where we have any influence is the slaughterhouse. We have worked and are continuing to work closely with the USDA and with Dr. Temple Grandin to ensure that all slaughterhouses where OU certified meat is produced meet humane standards; we have implemented changes in several cases and will be implementing more.
However, the OU has no say on what goes on in farms. We are not involved in decisions by meat producers regarding the source of their animals. Even if the OU were to go to farmers to urge more humane treatment of animals, we would be ignored, since the entire kosher market is a tiny percentage of total American demand, and if the farmers could not sell to kosher producers, they would sell to non-kosher producers. The end result would be a significant shortage of kosher meat and a significant rise in prices of the kosher meat available.
However, there is free-range, antibiotic meat available, some from the United States (in small quantities so far) and some from South America. Rubashkin has started selling natural, free-range beef, and there are three smaller producers. Everyone should support such developments and, if buying meat, vote with their pocketbooks for the better product. Producers will be happy to increase production to meet demand and prices will ultimately fall.
One other comment, though not related to my function: given that so many people profess to be “into Kabbala” nowadays, I was surprised to see that no one mentioned the Kabbalistic view of meat. Kabbala accepts the idea of reincarnation, although there are various differences among the M’kubbalim about how details. The idea that an animal may represent the reincarnation of a (previously) human soul is accepted by most M’kubbalim, and according to Kabbala, shechita is the way to fix whatever needs to be fixed for that soul, since that way the animal’s demise is in accordance with God’s law.
I hope I have given enough information that everyone can make their informed decision about what meat to buy and whether they want to eat meat at all. In a perfect world, I would argue that it is proper for Jews to eat meat occasionally. But we live in an imperfect world, and always will.

]]> By: Cheli Olstein http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3696 Cheli Olstein Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:28:40 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3696 Thanks for sharing this. I was disappointed to not be able to attend the conference, but reading this really helped me share in the experience. Thanks for sharing this. I was disappointed to not be able to attend the conference, but reading this really helped me share in the experience.

]]> By: Naomi G Marcus http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3693 Naomi G Marcus Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:54:19 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3693 Thank you for your account of what happened to the goat. I left because I was really quite cold and wanted breakfast and to attend some of the morning sessions. Although I know that some of the vegetarians are troubled by the whole process of turning a living animal into meat to be consumed by other animals (us), I think the discussion over the schecting has been very worthwhile and thought-provoking. I have gained a great deal of respect for kosher slaughter -- both the skill and knowledge required and the sensitivity to life and death that are present in the process. Thank you for your account of what happened to the goat. I left because I was really quite cold and wanted breakfast and to attend some of the morning sessions.

Although I know that some of the vegetarians are troubled by the whole process of turning a living animal into meat to be consumed by other animals (us), I think the discussion over the schecting has been very worthwhile and thought-provoking. I have gained a great deal of respect for kosher slaughter — both the skill and knowledge required and the sensitivity to life and death that are present in the process.

]]> By: Seth Mandel http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3691 Seth Mandel Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:15:48 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3691 One slight correction: the meat did not have to be glatt just because of the kitchen's policies. According to Jewish law, we are not allowed to accept any adhesions in the lungs by the smaller mammals (i.e. sheep, goats, or calves). So there is no "glatt" kosher goat meat or lamb; if it is kosher at all, there can be no adhesions, not even the minor ones that are allowed for a "glatt" animal. One slight correction: the meat did not have to be glatt just because of the kitchen’s policies. According to Jewish law, we are not allowed to accept any adhesions in the lungs by the smaller mammals (i.e. sheep, goats, or calves). So there is no “glatt” kosher goat meat or lamb; if it is kosher at all, there can be no adhesions, not even the minor ones that are allowed for a “glatt” animal.

]]> By: David Rendsburg http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3684 David Rendsburg Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:22:29 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3684 If the meat was not glatt, the kitchen would not have used it. There were various farmers who were involved in the process that would have taken it, just how some took the hind quarters. As for the "roast" - think of how one of those large shwarma spits look like. Its lots of small pieces all pushed together into one large unit. :-) If the meat was not glatt, the kitchen would not have used it. There were various farmers who were involved in the process that would have taken it, just how some took the hind quarters.

As for the “roast” - think of how one of those large shwarma spits look like. Its lots of small pieces all pushed together into one large unit. :-)

]]> By: Avi http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3682 Avi Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:09:18 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/from-the-farm-to-the-dinner-plate-the-story-of-the-goat-meat/#comment-3682 Good post, I was curious what would have happened if you ended up with a kosher non-glatt goat. How do you pile meat into a roast? I thought a roast is one solid piece of meat. Good post, I was curious what would have happened if you ended up with a kosher non-glatt goat.

How do you pile meat into a roast? I thought a roast is one solid piece of meat.

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