Comments on: God’s Word, Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand, and the Power of Two Percent – Part II http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Sat, 06 Sep 2008 06:07:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Ben Murane http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3685 Ben Murane Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:12:31 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3685 So I want to pose a choice which is framing why shechting seems to be my preference for humane meat as the market stands presently: 1) A shochet who is mindful and aware of the killing of an animal, including its sacredness to us and to the Divine, and who maintains an awareness of the animal's health, or... 2) A meat factory not so intent on the dignity of the animals and which may or may not be as mindful of the animals' health, but in which the animals are quite humanely stunned before butchering. I understand in the future that we would like all meat to be humanely raised and killed. But when I go shopping tonight and see "normal" meat and kosher meat, which am I going to choose? Or even when I see kosher meat and "organic, pasture-raised, humanely-killed meat" which will I chose? So I want to pose a choice which is framing why shechting seems to be my preference for humane meat as the market stands presently:

1) A shochet who is mindful and aware of the killing of an animal, including its sacredness to us and to the Divine, and who maintains an awareness of the animal’s health, or…

2) A meat factory not so intent on the dignity of the animals and which may or may not be as mindful of the animals’ health, but in which the animals are quite humanely stunned before butchering.

I understand in the future that we would like all meat to be humanely raised and killed. But when I go shopping tonight and see “normal” meat and kosher meat, which am I going to choose? Or even when I see kosher meat and “organic, pasture-raised, humanely-killed meat” which will I chose?

]]> By: Avi http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3683 Avi Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:14:41 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3683 Invsible hand raises a good point in regards to stunning. That's why Peta loves to target kosher plants. Secular society has decided that stunning is the least cruel method for killing an animal. However, stunning would render the animal treif so no kosher plant stuns their animals before shekhita. If we can prove that stunning is less painfull(and more humane) than standard shekhita, then Rabbis would need to look into changing the kosher killing process. But a change like that would be almost impossible to pass in todays Jewish world. Invsible hand raises a good point in regards to stunning. That’s why Peta loves to target kosher plants. Secular society has decided that stunning is the least cruel method for killing an animal. However, stunning would render the animal treif so no kosher plant stuns their animals before shekhita.

If we can prove that stunning is less painfull(and more humane) than standard shekhita, then Rabbis would need to look into changing the kosher killing process. But a change like that would be almost impossible to pass in todays Jewish world.

]]> By: Ben Murane http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3680 Ben Murane Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:26:25 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3680 No, I began with the presumption that kosher slaughter wasn't any different than the general meat industry. But after watching Rabbi Yehuda, I've totally been convinced otherwise. Not all shochets are as intent as he is, surely. But even if a few are, then it's a different world than mass manufactured slaughter. I'm really very very impressed. No, I began with the presumption that kosher slaughter wasn’t any different than the general meat industry.

But after watching Rabbi Yehuda, I’ve totally been convinced otherwise. Not all shochets are as intent as he is, surely. But even if a few are, then it’s a different world than mass manufactured slaughter. I’m really very very impressed.

]]> By: rebecca m http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3668 rebecca m Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:09:54 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3668 I've never watched an animal be stunned before slaughter, but I'm not convinced that it would cause less pain. Neither electric shock, nor captive bolt pistols sound like a particularly enjoyable process (I don't know much about gas poisoning). Sure, the animal will be unconscious during the actual slaughter, but that doesn't negate the extra pain they are inflicted during pre-slaughter stunning. I’ve never watched an animal be stunned before slaughter, but I’m not convinced that it would cause less pain.

Neither electric shock, nor captive bolt pistols sound like a particularly enjoyable process (I don’t know much about gas poisoning). Sure, the animal will be unconscious during the actual slaughter, but that doesn’t negate the extra pain they are inflicted during pre-slaughter stunning.

]]> By: invisible_hand http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3667 invisible_hand Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:56:55 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/god%e2%80%99s-word-adam-smith%e2%80%99s-invisible-hand-and-the-power-of-two-percent-%e2%80%93-part-ii/#comment-3667 again, it must be stated that the general meat industry is actually in better shape than the kosher one is, so whether we are 2% or 200% makes no difference. we need to clean up our own house. also, you seem to be starting from a pre-assumption that kosher slaughtering is a priori more ethical than non-kosher slaughtering. as far as i know, only rabbi joel roth, of the Conservative movement, has ruled shackling and bolting against halakhah. additionally, what about stunning the animals beforehand? no Orthodox halakhic shittah allows this procedure which would definitely inflict less pain. again, it must be stated that the general meat industry is actually in better shape than the kosher one is, so whether we are 2% or 200% makes no difference. we need to clean up our own house.
also, you seem to be starting from a pre-assumption that kosher slaughtering is a priori more ethical than non-kosher slaughtering. as far as i know, only rabbi joel roth, of the Conservative movement, has ruled shackling and bolting against halakhah. additionally, what about stunning the animals beforehand? no Orthodox halakhic shittah allows this procedure which would definitely inflict less pain.

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