If we give up our ability to judge things by reason, we give up our ability to change our positions. And since we can never be sure we are correct, it is important to not throw away the tools we have for re-examining how we live.

And if following a rule starts putting us in positions that hurt ourselves or hurt others, it is good to re-examine our assumptions and the reasons that have got us here. Also, I say, good to play it safe and conservative and to quit that action. Perhaps we are wrong, and better to err on the side of not doing things that are harmful.

But if you could see no benefit from the practice, and you could make no logical argument for it – why practice? It is good to reason about things and try to do what appears that it would be the most beneficial and the least harmful to yourself and to others.

You need not feel fuzzy or self-righteous. This is not what we mean by ‘beneficial’ or ‘helpful’.

Perhaps the disagreement we have is only over words. Certainly, everyone would recognize any action by a Jew is influenced by Jewish history and culture – even if that person is working to remove themselves from the community. Is this enough to call the action Jewish? Yes. No. If we agree on the idea, the disagreement on language becomes unimportant.

Perhaps there are different centers to the Jewish world. Each center is defined by what Jews do and what we have done. The farther away from these centers an action is the less Jewish it is. And perhaps the farther removed an action is from Jewish community the less Jewish it is too. And perhaps the farther away from what have typically been Jewish ideas the less Jewish it is too.

Whats with this idea that if a person doesnt “get anything” out of their kashrus their should stop it? Since when is doing a mitzvah about getting anything out of it? I say, if you’re not getting any fuzzy feelings of self-righteousness from your kashrus, then your kashrus is way holier from that person that does, and I commend you for it.

As for Judaism not being about Jews – well – perhaps not, but it certainly looks like it is. The rules look towards building ways that we can live together in justice and peace – ways to build community. Perhaps Judaism is about G-d, but only in that G-d would wish us to live in these ways that are beneficial and healthy. And then the point becomes only semantic. Are the laws for the people? Are the laws for G-d? It does not matter, because the effect is the same.

I don’t understand what you mean when you say that rational examination of the mitzvot will lead us to have no reason to practice. Most mitzvot are helpful. Gemara aside, better to examine what we do and make sure that it is helpful and causes no harm. There is always a chance that we are wrong (Hillel said: do not trust yourself till the day you die) and best to err on the side of doing things that look to be helpful and at least not harmful. Man has some sense – most people know, even when they don’t practice it – what is good.

And this, from Walt Whitman:
“go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and with the mothers of families, read these leaves in open air every season or every year of your life, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency”

To be fair, that’s clearly not what I was talking about, but rather that worshipping Jesus is not a jewish practice even if a Jew does it, using normal American elipsed English.
Second, it’s not a Jewish practice to worship human beings, no matter who says it is. Not even if you call them something else.
The problem actually comes out of a problem of philosophy, which is that once one divorces Judaism from the divine, there is no way of saying anything is Jewish – it’ snot that everything is Jewish if Jews do it, it’s that nothing is at all.
A rational approach to Judaism in which we explain the meaning of the mitzvot (which is, by the way, prohibited by the rabbis in the gemara) is a path down which if we follow it, there can ultimately be no reason to practice any Judaism.
It’s true that someone who comes from a point of view of suggesting that halakha is the boundary setter ultimately can’t have much to say to the one who says that it’s culturally determined, but I will point out,also, that the one who says that whatever Jews do is Judaism is making a category mistake. The logical endpoint is no Judaism at all.
If you want to be spiritually uplifted by eating shrimp, Kol HaKavod, but it isn’t Judaism, and feeling uplifted isn’t the point of mitzvot. Key thought: mitzvot, like much of Judaism isn’t about you (in the generic sense) at all. It’s about national, not personal salvation. One’s feeling god about doing X or Y is completely irrelevant to the reason for doing mitzvot, and no specific mitzvah can have a reason – Only the body of them as a (family-resemblant) whole have meaning, and the meaning is that when the Jewish people – as a whole- do mitzvot, we -as a nation- are brought closer to God.

If you feel god about eating shrimp, fine, but don’t call it Judaism just because you’re a Jew. Judaism isn’t about Jews, it’s about God.

That assertion of 300 years was made by more educated Torah scholar friends of mine, so I’m hunting down some certainties to back up that argument.

Hang tight,

Ben

Ben, I’m still wondering where your 300 years regarding traditions comes from, and if you were implying that modern rituals lack validity in your eyes. I would like to see what your definition of the modern siddur is. I note you said that there is no “right” practice in Judaism, but again, can you find me a Judaism based in text, shared community and observance that espouses eating bacon, or committing fraud, or not lighting candles for shabbat? And I still hope you can express why it should be true in any way that Talmud is not for everyone (at least everyone who wants to discuss anything Jewish).