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Kosher Butchers in Long Island Ask: What Is Kosher?

by Rabbi Mordechai Rackover · August 1st, 2008
Kosher, Most Controversial Posts, News, Opinion

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The JTA reported yesterday about a pair of kosher butcher brothers in Long Island who are causing a peculiar controversy: by petitioning the state of New York to stop enforcing its kosher laws.

The brothers’ shop, Commack Deli and Market, adheres to a Conservative definition of kashrut, which holds that some foods (like frozen vegetables) are inherently kosher, and therefore do not need kosher certification. But according to the JTA: “Under New York law, only products labeled as kosher can be sold as kosher. The store’s kosher supervisor – a Conservative Rabbi named William Berman – submitted an affidavit with a different point of view: “the state is infringing upon the religious freedom of the non-Orthodox denomination/sects of Judaism by compelling [them] to adhere to the law requiring labels on all kosher food products.”

On the one hand, I sympathize with the Yarmeisch brothers. I consider myself Orthodox, and I do purchase some foods without heksherim, beer, certain rice products (rice wine, vinegar in some cases), and frozen veggies. But I feel a bit like a hidden Jew - “If anyone finds out!”

BUT from the Ortho P.O.V. I can say as follows: I used to be amazed (okay I still am) at the level of craziness that people went through on Passover. Once a friend mentioned that when he was younger (the sixties) his parents would buy frozen carrots without certification even on passover. Then this year I was reading a Passover kosher manual and found an interesting issue: sometimes the machinery that is used to package, sort, etc regular frozen veggies also is used to make those frozen mixes that include pasta, fish or meat. Imagine dumping a bag of carrots into your Kosher-for-Passover-Chicken-Soup and having a bow-tie noodle jump in as well.

Imagine dumping a bag of carrots into your Kosher-for-Passover-Chicken-Soup and having a bow-tie noodle jump in as well.

What is the moral of the story? Food processing is so complicated these days that there is often significant cause for concern even in what appears to be the simplest of foods. All this notwithstanding, the constitutional questions are fascinating and the Jewish legal questions are equally or even more important: Why is there no significant ‘lenient’ or liberal hashgacha in the U.S.?

Read the JTA’s story here.
Read another account of the story in Vos Iz Neias here

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6 Responses to “Kosher Butchers in Long Island Ask: What Is Kosher?”

  1. Ben Murane Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Hurrah!

    The Jewish community isn’t unanimous about what is and isn’t kosher — and the idea that the government is implementing one denomination’s religious law over another is pretty jarring. It’s not NY State’s job to verify who is and isn’t kosher — that’s for the Jews to decide.

  2. Mordechai Rackover Says:
    August 4th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Ben,

    I am not sure of the history but I believe that the laws were originally implemented as a form of consumer protection legislation. I have a recollection of problems with ‘Kosher Style’ restaurants.

    But… it is an interesting conflict with Church-State issues.

    Here the question is, in some ways, who defines which church the State is in conflict with.

  3. Stephen Mendelsohn Says:
    August 6th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    BS”D

    I believe neighboring New Jersey has a kosher law that can withstand constitutional muster. It merely requires kosher restaurants and groceries to post a sign listing their certifiying agency, frequency of inspection, and has a short checklist for consumers to check for specific kosher standards, without entangling into denominational differences as to what exactly is kosher.

    BTW, New Jersey also has a similar law regarding halal food. The idea here is consumer protection is a legitimate state function; religious favoritism is not.

  4. Larry Lennhoff Says:
    August 11th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    I believe the Triangle K is considered a liberal hashgacha by most people. Unfortunately it is so liberal most Orthodox Jews won’t eat food that has only that hashgacha.

  5. Mordechai Says:
    August 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    I wouldn’t consider Triangle-K liberal. I meant something that has stated positions on halakhic issues that are more in tune with those individuals in the Conservative movement and the left of Orthodoxy. Triangle K is caught up in many issues that are beyond the scope of this blog. That is not to say they are of their own choice, it is an ‘old’ hekhsher and has history…This leads to disputes with others.

  6. invisible_hand Says:
    August 12th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    why is there no liberal kashrus around?
    speaking as someone who is a big proponent of such a thing…
    i believe that it is a factor of the general chumrafication of american judaism. when we, as a people, are in an incredible financial situation (at least, that’s the image we have), and have a religious temperament that focuses on the existential charge of denying ourselves as well as the radicalization of amoral ritual (not that there aren’t ethics in halakhah, but the orthodox don’t want to see it often), we get a kashrus (as well as most areas of halakhah) in which only the most machmir opinion makes you REALLY kosher (or orthodox, or jewish). i think the underlying factor with chumrafication is that judaism (in america mostly) is about identity. in a nation in which religion is a private enterprise, you choose who you want to be, religiously. so, for people to be REALLY jewish, they must cop to the most machmir position (this is what the success of orthodoxy is about).

    i strongly believe that this stress on machmir and institutional kashrus (and all the costs that come with it) has cost the jewish people many kosher-observers, those who do not want to/cannot absorb the cost (because we think within a framework that since the jews are set money wise, we don’t have to consider cost a major concern anymore. also, the existential piety is also triggered by a higher cost, due to our sacrifice).

    people who want to keep a (more) liberal kashrus can’t really compete with these social forces.

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