Comments on: Kosher Thoughts: The OU Threatens to Pull Agri’s Certification http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Meatloaf http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-11009 Meatloaf Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:08:24 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-11009 cross posted on JewSchool: The OU Board was always split on the issue of Agriprocessors. The preponderance of evidence that has come out pushed those in the middle over the edge. The OU should be applauded for moving in the right direction on this, but much will depend on what action they take over the next few weeks. I think the OU also realizes that more charges by government agencies are still to come. cross posted on JewSchool:

The OU Board was always split on the issue of Agriprocessors. The preponderance of evidence that has come out pushed those in the middle over the edge. The OU should be applauded for moving in the right direction on this, but much will depend on what action they take over the next few weeks. I think the OU also realizes that more charges by government agencies are still to come.

]]> By: Rabbi David Seidenberg http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-10999 Rabbi David Seidenberg Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:03:51 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-10999 In case anyone wants to read my "screed", just go to http://jcarrot.org/agro-about-agriprocessors/. It seems that events are proving the position I advocated. There is good reason why the halakhah (Jewish law) teaches us to be suspicious of a butcher who claims to have done t'shuvah in order to restore his business, as I wrote about there. It is also a shame that Rabbi Shmuel continues to attack style, instead of dealing with the substance of the article. There's some halakhah to reckon with Reb Shmuel! There's also a matter of showing mutual respect, even in disagreement. If the sages of old could do it, then why can't we? I agree with Avi's basic point: probably the OU is doing what it said it would do all along--withdraw certification in the face of charges. The problem is, it's almost impossible to imagine that OU's inspectors never noticed all the under-age workers, any more than it's possible to imagine they never saw tracheas being torn out of animals with hooks. Just like teachers in schools, mashigichim should consider themselves "mandated reporters" of ethical violations, tsa'ar ba'alei chayim, abuse of workers, etc. The bigger problem is, if the OU had threatened to withdraw certification long ago, they could have gotten Agriprocessors to shape up before all this fiasco unfolded, prevented a lot of chillul Hashem and perhaps prevented a lot of abuse, and headed off what now looks almost inevitable: the bankruptcy and dissolution of Agripricessors. It would help to restore the OU's credibility if they would develop stricter guidelines to deal with future situations in the face of this ethical crisis. (Rabbi) David In case anyone wants to read my “screed”, just go to http://jcarrot.org/agro-about-agriprocessors/. It seems that events are proving the position I advocated. There is good reason why the halakhah (Jewish law) teaches us to be suspicious of a butcher who claims to have done t’shuvah in order to restore his business, as I wrote about there.

It is also a shame that Rabbi Shmuel continues to attack style, instead of dealing with the substance of the article. There’s some halakhah to reckon with Reb Shmuel! There’s also a matter of showing mutual respect, even in disagreement. If the sages of old could do it, then why can’t we?

I agree with Avi’s basic point: probably the OU is doing what it said it would do all along–withdraw certification in the face of charges.

The problem is, it’s almost impossible to imagine that OU’s inspectors never noticed all the under-age workers, any more than it’s possible to imagine they never saw tracheas being torn out of animals with hooks. Just like teachers in schools, mashigichim should consider themselves “mandated reporters” of ethical violations, tsa’ar ba’alei chayim, abuse of workers, etc.

The bigger problem is, if the OU had threatened to withdraw certification long ago, they could have gotten Agriprocessors to shape up before all this fiasco unfolded, prevented a lot of chillul Hashem and perhaps prevented a lot of abuse, and headed off what now looks almost inevitable: the bankruptcy and dissolution of Agripricessors.

It would help to restore the OU’s credibility if they would develop stricter guidelines to deal with future situations in the face of this ethical crisis.

(Rabbi) David

]]> By: Ben Murane http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-10998 Ben Murane Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:49:19 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-10998 Their line was weak. It was an overwhelming level of evidence. Discerning readers gave them the benefit of the doubt long ago -- before the PR firm was hired, before the federal raid, before the boycotts. The line they should have drawn was long ago. Their line was weak. It was an overwhelming level of evidence. Discerning readers gave them the benefit of the doubt long ago — before the PR firm was hired, before the federal raid, before the boycotts.

The line they should have drawn was long ago.

]]> By: Rabbi Shmuel http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-10996 Rabbi Shmuel Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:20:25 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-10996 Eric - WADR you miss Avi's nuanced and delicate point (this theme was beaten to death in David Seidenberg's screed) on a larger level, Elul is a time for self-searching and personal breast beating not fingerpointing and book thumping and a "J'accuse" mindset - Actually, the OU drew a line in the sand and said if that line was crossed they would act - the line was crossed and they have given the terms of their action - so ironically, they have been consistent throughout the whole thing. Eric – WADR you miss Avi’s nuanced and delicate point (this theme was beaten to death in David Seidenberg’s screed) on a larger level, Elul is a time for self-searching and personal breast beating not fingerpointing and book thumping and a “J’accuse” mindset – Actually, the OU drew a line in the sand and said if that line was crossed they would act – the line was crossed and they have given the terms of their action – so ironically, they have been consistent throughout the whole thing.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-10995 Michael Croland Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:35:13 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-10995 well said, Eric! well said, Eric!

]]> By: Eric Schulmiller http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-10994 Eric Schulmiller Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:26:47 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-10994 I think you are correct that this is not a case of the OU bowing to outside pressures. However, just because their motives are "pure" doesn't change the fact that their decision (for months now, according to your post) to draw the line at criminal charges speaks to the OU's continued willingness to give the Rubashkins far to much benefit of the doubt, to the detriment of the animals and workers who were abused and mistreated, and consumers who might be potentially sickened due to their numerous health violations. Before the OU could even begin to do teshuvah, they would have to acknowledge that their approach has been wrong all along, and this is not at all what they believe. I think you are correct that this is not a case of the OU bowing to outside pressures. However, just because their motives are “pure” doesn’t change the fact that their decision (for months now, according to your post) to draw the line at criminal charges speaks to the OU’s continued willingness to give the Rubashkins far to much benefit of the doubt, to the detriment of the animals and workers who were abused and mistreated, and consumers who might be potentially sickened due to their numerous health violations. Before the OU could even begin to do teshuvah, they would have to acknowledge that their approach has been wrong all along, and this is not at all what they believe.

]]> By: Rabbi Shmuel http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/comment-page-1#comment-10993 Rabbi Shmuel Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:49:23 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/kosher-thoughts/#comment-10993 well said R Avi! A guten Elul well said R Avi!

A guten Elul

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