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Lacto-ovo-Vegetarian vs. Carnivore

by Cecily Marbach Oberstein · May 15th, 2009

Advice, Agriprocessors, Family & Kids, Hazon, Kosher, Meat, Personal Story, Shabbat Meals, Vegetarian

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I am in a mixed marriage. I am vegetarian and my husband and children are not. If only I could have a plain old vegetarian kitchen life would be so good. I could give away my fleishig things and have tons more space and much less confusion in the kitchen, not to mention I’d never have to wash another fatty greasy dish again. I abhor buying and cooking meat and the times when I am alone cleaning up in the kitchen I view the mess like it is insult to injury. You are probably thinking why is she doing it? My plain answer is out of love for my family.

How could that be? Well, when Shabbat rolls around chicken is what my hard working husband wants to eat. For years I declined buying or cooking meat and then I was worn down when family and guests would grace our table and I would feel that sadly they preferred and were more satisfied when there were animals on the table.

Because I have lived for almost a decade without eating animals my family has realized that this was not a passing phase. In fact, it was a visit on the 2000 Hazon Cross Country Bike Ride that clenched my fate as a vegetarian. Believe it or not, it was a gift from the organizers, around the time of my birthday, that we visit the kosher slaughterhouse in Postville, Iowa. Talk about a formative experience… since we had been discussing issues of environmental sustainability, all summer long, it seemed fitting at the time that we visit the slaughterhouse.

We were warmly received and given a brief lesson on what makes an animal kosher. Then we adorned hard hats and blue protective jackets before entering the plant. To get into the “processing” room we had to sidestep between whole skinned sides of cows that were hung from hooks and were moving on a device similar to how clothes are hung at the dry cleaners. I felt like I was at some twisted playground trying to enter a wicked game of jump rope. All of us had been holding hands in a line and after several tries I realized I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t pass through the sides of cow fast enough– I was scared of getting hit.

I broke the chain and walked outside only to find myself retching and then sitting in our van crying. Once I calmed down a bit, I remember looking up and realizing that I was surrounded by towers of caged turkeys stacked on the back of several trucks. The sky was gray the turkeys were gray and I was through living a life that involved me eating animals. Funnily enough, while I was experiencing a mild form of post traumatic stress, others walked away with the feeling of having witnessed a great mitzvah for kosher Jewish Americans–that here was a place dedicated to providing kosher meat for our people.

So now years later, I am doing a lot of things that I thought I never would. I purchase, cook, serve, and clean up animals. I am personally responsible for creating a demand for these products. OK so I still avoid cooking cows and boycott steak restaurants but there are poor chickens whose lives rested in my hands and they lost, I lost. However I do have some rules in my house: 1. I never take compliments on the animals that I cook. 2. If it had to die to be at our table there better be no leftovers. Just as bad as buying and cooking the animals in my opinion, is throwing some away in the trash.

I was wondering if there were others of you out there struggling with a mixed home such as mine? Have you sold out like me due to popular demand or have you found some happy medium (if that even exists)?

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17 Responses to “Lacto-ovo-Vegetarian vs. Carnivore”

Ivy Says:
May 15th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Well, when I went vegetarian and very shortly thereafter vegan, I got rid of all the meat and eggs in the house. I was already divorced, but even if I weren’t, that wouldn’t have changed a thing. (My ex eats vegan when he comes over–and he’s fine with it.) I told my girls that they could eat meat at school if they bought lunch and when we went out for meals. And I searched and searched for an alternative milk until I found ones that they love–Silk Soy organic and DHA and Blue Diamond chocolate milk–both in the refrigerated case. I went vegan in January (2008) and my girls followed (as vegetarians)–one in the spring and the other in the summer. I gently exposed them to the facts of factory farming, but let them make their own decision. But I certainly wasn’t going to have anything to do with buying/cooking/preparing meat or its byproducts. I don’t know how you do it.
Nari Says:
May 15th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
I should start by saying that I’m not trying to sound disrespectful. Normally I don’t comment if I have something rude to say, but your post was so moving up until you wrote the “two rules” in your house.
“1. I never take compliments on the animals that I cook. 2. If it had to die to be at our table there better be no leftovers.”

I guess I was expecing you to come to a final note about the complicated way that you balance your own committment to vegetarianism, your love for your family, and the importance of responsibly-raised and slaughtered meat production, but I was left very frustrated. So here’s the insulting part: Do you really sleep better at night by living by those half-assed excuses for “rules”?

No one lives without contradictions, certainly I don’t and certainly you don’t. So why end such an interesting discussion of conflicting values by saying “I just don’t let people say I’m a good cook so it’s ok”?
Delilah Says:
May 15th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Dear Cecily,

I feel for you and I salute your braveness in bringing this conflict to the blogosphere…. I am on the other side of such a mixed relationship. However, I would never dream of asking my vegetarian partner to cook and prepare meat for me! I even feel a twinge of guilt ordering meat at a restaurant when he is picking up the tab. I gently inquire why your husband cannot conceive of cooking and cleaning up after his carnivorous meals? It sounds like you are at a point where something has to change for you. So I wish you the best of luck in bringing that about. (As for leftovers, certainly they can be eaten up the next day?)
Nic Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 12:21 am
I only cook things that I would kill. I can do fish as I have fished before. If the partner wants chicken, he eats lunchmeat or out at a restaurant since he doesn’t like dealing with raw meat or bones (funny how that works…).
shev Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 2:14 am
What an interesting and emotionally charged article, the soul of which declares “Life is complicated”.

I am an intermarried person myself :) I was shocked to discover, when I became a vegetarian after more than 10 years of marriage, that my husband was not only not interested in consuming less fish or chicken, but found my choice stressful for him! News update: even our most beloved beloveds might look askance at something which we believe to be the truest truth.

Your line “have you sold out like me?” reveals your feelings of guilt: you think you are wrong to have meat in your house. Well, life is bigger than just food or just meat (Sorry, folks!) You are NOT selling out, you are showing yourself to be a person who can grapple with “right” and “wrong”, and inhabit the grey area that means “compromise” and even, “peace”.

I see in your letter that there are many things about having meat on your table you find distressing, much of it to do with preparation. Can you trade chicken-for-veges with a friend – you each cook double of what you typically make, and trade the finished dish? This way, you let someone else handle the raw chicken, and your husband can serve the cooked. Would you feel differently if you only bought ethically raised meat? Huge difference in cost, but maybe worth it to help resolve your chronic tension in this area.

Cecily, I hope that writing this out gave you some clarity, on things you want to change, or things you dream could be different, and help you take little steps towards the changes you wish for yourself and your family.
Susan Bodnar Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 10:28 am
In our family, my children and I are vegetarians. Our kids’ feelings about food, soulfulness and animals inspired this decision, as well as my equally nauseating childhood “field-trip” to a slaughterhouse.
My spouse, their father, David,is a meat-eater. Having kashrut on our side helps because in order to have a kosher household we don’t allow any meat or meat products into the home. It simplifies our already over complicated lives.
While relegating meat consumption to restaurants is not an answer to anything, it has created a thought process that has drastically decreased David’s consumption of meat (and not only because we almost always prefer to eat at home with the kids), and has caused him to look for restaurants that at least claim to serve sustainably raised beef.
The problem for me is that I was raised as a meat eater. Sometimes, it is hard for me to resist. Yet the separation between the home and the outside world, between meat and dairy has created a supportive consciousness for our family’s mutual decision to eat what we believe. It is hard to perfectly adhere to that for David and I, raised as we were in a very different era, but our kids are being raised this way — and they can’t really comprehend any other way of living! In an interesting turn of child rearing, our kids values help us adhere to our own.
beth Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I grew up in a carnivore, non-kosher home. Mom loved chicken, Dad loved red meat and, well, that was that.

In my early thirties I was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease, which explained a lifetime of wondering why I could never eat leafy salads or any raw vegetables without getting sick. Today, after years of figuring out a diet I could live with, I eat poultry, lots of rice and processed grains (whole grains are too hard to digest) and cooked vegetables (but never tomatoes or leafy greens). I eat dairy in careful moderation and depend on vitamin supplements to make up for some of the foods I cannot digest. I am blessed with a loving spouse who is more than willing to cook with my dietary needs in mind. We eat chicken and fish at home, but no red meat (I can’t digest it); and she is constantly on the lookout for new recipies for root vegetables, of which I can eat all I want.

We’ve both been vaguely interested in trying Kosher cooking but the fact is that, with so many dietary restrictions, I’m already plenty mindful of what I put in my mouth. Kashrut hardly seems the point in my case, and frankly if I worried about the animals so much I would starve.

At some point, I think you just have to draw a line and be clear on what it means, to you and to your family and community. Being clear is the key.
Eli Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Thank you for this thought-provoking post.
I am also part of a mixed marriage, but I am on the other side. I value eating animals and must cope with living with a spouse who doesn’t share my values.

I have no problem respecting the perspective of vegetarians, and I respect their dedication and sacrifice (at least until they forget the taste of meat.) But the issue becomes much more complex when it becomes personal, when I live under the same roof- and thus share utensils, preparation, and meals, with my vegetarian spouse.

I think it would be sad if my spouse and I couldn’t share meals because we have ideological differences, though I recognize that some differences are inflexible.
And I think the question is more profound than balancing your values against your love of family. We are in fact balancing our values against other values- values we already admit to disagree with but try to engage anyways.

I think you are very courageous for respecting your spouse’s views enough to create a space which you can share. Your rules are helpful because they don’t imply self righteousness or pretend to unify opposing views. They merely force everyone who eats in your house to respect you and hopefully learn a little more about the reasons you hold your values.
I think I will suggest some variation in my home (and pretend I thought of this on my own!)
Eda Goldstein Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Cecily,

The fact that I was a vegetarian and my husband and children ate meat was never a problem–until the kibbutz kitchen and dining room closed down, and we started preparing meals at home. Despite my children’s promised to help with the cooking, I ended up doing most of it. I found myself cooking ground turkey or chicken dishes every week and freezing them in single-serving containers for my kids’ lunch.

Hang in there, Cecily, because there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. I never cook meat anymore. When my husband gets a craving for meat, he makes himself a turkey sandwich. Our diners together in the evening are vegetarian. My older son learned to cook for himself even before going to college, and my younger son — the one who complained bitterly for years that I was starving him to death by not feeding him enough meat — has become a vegetarian himself.
Arlyn Boltax Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I have a good friend who is a veg. but makes delicious chicken. Kol HaKavod to you for being willing to cook for your family what you choose not to eat yourself. Some would say that’s true love!

When I was veg, I relegated my husband to eating meat out only. Wouldn’t cook it or have it in the house. Now we all eat meat, although this past Shabbat, my four year old declared that “When I get older, I am going to be a vegetarian!”. A lofty proclamation for a young fellow, and especially funny as he was eating meatballs at the time!

And, actually, the “no leftover” rule made me smile!
Cecily Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Thank you. I really appreciate your stories,comments, and criticism. I have avoided responding until now because with the flood gates open I know not where to begin. I do know though that in this list lie the words of my spouse and that there is immense hope and respect in his words.

As far as I’m concerned this dialogue has only just begun. Stay tuned…
Alix Says:
May 19th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
I was in one of these mixed marriages until I began eating meat last year. My husband agreed to eat meat only out, except that we had one cast iron pan that he used for it, and special dishes. That was our compromise. Then I began eating it, so now it’s not a problem, but my “less meat” diet still rules the house, pretty much.
Alice Marbach Says:
May 20th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
My friend Seraphina is a ten year old vegetarian, the only one in her house. She and her sister eat fish pasta instead of eating meat sauce and her sister doesn’t mind (she is not vegetarian). At our school she eats vegetarian but the choice is limited because most things are meat.
Cecily Says:
May 24th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Hi Alice, thanks so much for sharing your friend’s story. I had a hard time being a vegan/vegetarian as a 20 year old in terms of peer pressure I can’t imagine what it must be like for your friend. She must really be applauded for sticking to her guns at such a young age. Maybe she should bring her lunch from home if that’s allowed. Then she would have more to eat during the school day. /c
Michael Croland Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 10:59 am
I’m vegan and I generally try to avoid handling meat, but I posted to my blog yesterday about some exceptions:

http://heebnvegan.blogspot.com.....ungry.html (or if that doesn’t work: http://tinyurl.com/qupqpx )
Michael Croland Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Also, you might want to check out my March 2008 post about Jewish married couples that consist of one vegetarian and one meat-eater:

http://heebnvegan.blogspot.com.....iages.html (or if that doesn’t work: http://tinyurl.com/o95tej)
Ivy Manning Says:
June 9th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
There are so many of us mixed-diet couples out there. I wrote a book about it and had no trouble finding a publisher (it is out Nov. 2009). I wrote the book I needed every night of the week. I have figured out a way to cook one meal and feed the omnis and veggies in the family. It takes some getting used to, but it is possible! Take heart, Alice.