Comments on: Losing my Chezkat Kashrut http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:10:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Rabbi Shmuel http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1151 Rabbi Shmuel Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:09:28 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1151 Will other kosher people eat it?–the issue is also about community norms — so if not, how do we change those? sara - great insight - it's more about the extended community as well - we try to keep our home to a standard where all of our friends can eat there as well avtherav - you're pretty much on the money, but let me ask you a question. What if the goat was milked on shabbos by a Jew who felt that to discard it would be bal tashchis and then commingled with nonshabbos milk and made into cheese. Any problems with that scenario? or is it merely a rennet question? just curious Will other kosher people eat it?–the issue is also about community norms — so if not, how do we change those?

sara - great insight - it’s more about the extended community as well - we try to keep our home to a standard where all of our friends can eat there as well

avtherav - you’re pretty much on the money, but let me ask you a question. What if the goat was milked on shabbos by a Jew who felt that to discard it would be bal tashchis and then commingled with nonshabbos milk and made into cheese. Any problems with that scenario? or is it merely a rennet question? just curious

]]> By: avtherav http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1144 avtherav Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:46:27 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1144 Actually the issue of cheese is very similar to the original topic. Unlike other foods, cheese requires a chezkat kashrut to be established before it is deemed kosher. this is due to the fact that rennett can be used and one would not know the difference if a kosher or non-kosher rennet was used. This therefore led to the establishment of the category of gvinat akum, or cheese made by non-jews. In order for cheese to be kosher then a different level of kosher supervision must be in effect. If one knows the maker of the cheese (as in the case of nigel) then that very ell may establish enough reliability for the product, but as a result of this that halacha precludes anyone from purchasing any cheese, even if one has the assurance of the cheese maker that, vegetal rennets were used in the production. Actually the issue of cheese is very similar to the original topic. Unlike other foods, cheese requires a chezkat kashrut to be established before it is deemed kosher. this is due to the fact that rennett can be used and one would not know the difference if a kosher or non-kosher rennet was used. This therefore led to the establishment of the category of gvinat akum, or cheese made by non-jews. In order for cheese to be kosher then a different level of kosher supervision must be in effect. If one knows the maker of the cheese (as in the case of nigel) then that very ell may establish enough reliability for the product, but as a result of this that halacha precludes anyone from purchasing any cheese, even if one has the assurance of the cheese maker that, vegetal rennets were used in the production.

]]> By: Sara Shalva http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1130 Sara Shalva Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:28:58 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1130 This is a great conversation. The FDA's not-so recent acknowledgement and warning that people consume less tuna because of the high levels of mercury is another example of a day late and a dollor short: this has been a problem for a long time. But in bringing up the issue of Kashrut and cheese, I would love to explore how people hold (other than Nigel)in regards to "kosher" cheese. It is my humble opinion that the kosher cheese industry in America is a bit of a racket. No offense intended. So, when I relocate to New York I will do want I can with CSA etc. but here is my real question: who is Eitan and how do I get a hold of some of that cheese? Will other kosher people eat it?--the issue is also about community norms -- so if not, how do we change those? Or can we go about getting smaller local dairy farmers hechshers that aren't crazy expensive or inhibitive? This is a great conversation. The FDA’s not-so recent acknowledgement and warning that people consume less tuna because of the high levels of mercury is another example of a day late and a dollor short: this has been a problem for a long time. But in bringing up the issue of Kashrut and cheese, I would love to explore how people hold (other than Nigel)in regards to “kosher” cheese. It is my humble opinion that the kosher cheese industry in America is a bit of a racket. No offense intended. So, when I relocate to New York I will do want I can with CSA etc. but here is my real question: who is Eitan and how do I get a hold of some of that cheese? Will other kosher people eat it?–the issue is also about community norms — so if not, how do we change those? Or can we go about getting smaller local dairy farmers hechshers that aren’t crazy expensive or inhibitive?

]]> By: Rabbi Shmuel http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1129 Rabbi Shmuel Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:19:50 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1129 Julie - we can buy locally so that the chezkas kashrus is up close and personal - police policing the police just creates an unnecessary layer of complexity subsidized by you the consumer. So if Nigel is comfortable eating Eitan's goast cheese because he knows the farmer and the goat has a Hebrew name and other relevant factors, that's easier than a "police" state - demand accountability and know where your food comes from - it's easier than you think - I come in contact with local growers (for whatever I don't grow) and its parrt of an ongoing dialog - can't you just see a commercil - "it's 10:00 - do know where your cauliflower is?" food for thought Julie - we can buy locally so that the chezkas kashrus is up close and personal - police policing the police just creates an unnecessary layer of complexity subsidized by you the consumer. So if Nigel is comfortable eating Eitan’s goast cheese because he knows the farmer and the goat has a Hebrew name and other relevant factors, that’s easier than a “police” state - demand accountability and know where your food comes from - it’s easier than you think - I come in contact with local growers (for whatever I don’t grow) and its parrt of an ongoing dialog - can’t you just see a commercil - “it’s 10:00 - do know where your cauliflower is?” food for thought

]]> By: Julie Rezmovic http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1127 Julie Rezmovic Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:13:02 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1127 What a great blog!! The FDA is aware of many possibilities for outbreaks of contaminated food but they are too big of an organization to patrol everyone so strictly so they depend on the food companies overseeing themselves. Obviously in the past year the FDA did not do their job well. When our food is overseen by such a huge organization of course something is going to fall through the cracks. But do we really have time to study each spinach leaf before we eat it? I think that Judaism says YES! Just like we have to check our food for bugs to prevent from eating them, I think that we must also have an Eco-Kosher hecksher that can check up on the FDA and other heckher's. I know its just creating another organization, but what are we supposed to do in our modern busy lives? What a great blog!!
The FDA is aware of many possibilities for outbreaks of contaminated food but they are too big of an organization to patrol everyone so strictly so they depend on the food companies overseeing themselves. Obviously in the past year the FDA did not do their job well. When our food is overseen by such a huge organization of course something is going to fall through the cracks. But do we really have time to study each spinach leaf before we eat it? I think that Judaism says YES! Just like we have to check our food for bugs to prevent from eating them, I think that we must also have an Eco-Kosher hecksher that can check up on the FDA and other heckher’s. I know its just creating another organization, but what are we supposed to do in our modern busy lives?

]]> By: Riley & Tiki's Mom http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1126 Riley & Tiki's Mom Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:07:43 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1126 Considering that the FDA still won't say what other companies bought tainted rice protein and put it in pet food, I wouldn't count on them to alert anyone that a food is contaminated and/or not kosher. Small local farmers are great, if only they made pet food. Considering that the FDA still won’t say what other companies bought tainted rice protein and put it in pet food, I wouldn’t count on them to alert anyone that a food is contaminated and/or not kosher. Small local farmers are great, if only they made pet food.

]]> By: Rachel Kohl http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1125 Rachel Kohl Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:59:02 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/losing-my-chezkat-kashrut/#comment-1125 Rabbi Finegold, You make an interesting point about "chezkat kashrut" as a term that is transeferable to non-kashrut situations. I'm not sure, however, that using it to refer to the FDA is necessary. What you are basically getting at is the question of trust. Perhaps using the word "kosher" in this context is unecessary and might even be misleading. Regardless, you make a good point and obviously care deeply about these issues. We need more rabbis like you! Warmest regards, Rachel PS. I think I've met your wife. Rabbi Finegold,
You make an interesting point about “chezkat kashrut” as a term that is transeferable to non-kashrut situations. I’m not sure, however, that using it to refer to the FDA is necessary. What you are basically getting at is the question of trust. Perhaps using the word “kosher” in this context is unecessary and might even be misleading.

Regardless, you make a good point and obviously care deeply about these issues. We need more rabbis like you!

Warmest regards,
Rachel
PS. I think I’ve met your wife.

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