Comments on: Mitzvah Meat – Bringing Sustainable Kosher Meat to the Table http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:20:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bill Kelly http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-12529 Bill Kelly Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:31:18 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-12529 Ever since we investigated what was happening at agriprocessors and read the Omnivore's Dilema, my family has decided to wait for some kind of grass fed kosher beef to become available in Northern California. I hope this won't take a generation, but how can we expand the availability of shocktem? Maybe as part of the conservative 'ethical kashrut' the movement will have to create the non-orthodox shocket as a response. Ever since we investigated what was happening at agriprocessors and read the Omnivore’s Dilema, my family has decided to wait for some kind of grass fed kosher beef to become available in Northern California. I hope this won’t take a generation, but how can we expand the availability of shocktem? Maybe as part of the conservative ‘ethical kashrut’ the movement will have to create the non-orthodox shocket as a response.

]]> By: Dan Hochman http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-12003 Dan Hochman Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:19:58 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-12003 This is a very complex, and emotional, issue. You are indeed correct that the animal is dead, and that is sad. You are correct that if one is vegan one will not contribute to the use of animals. The problem is that the majority of humans are not, and likely never will be, vegan. Therefore, the issue becomes how do we obtain our food in the most ethical and humane way possible. I do garden and grow vegetables. But people want milk, and eggs, and meat. I personally want to start this goat farm because I am a veterinarian and a good (and Kosher) client of mine raises goats for milk. And as all the milk industry does, this produces a “by product”, which is of course babies. This is a good food source. I am trying to figure a way to raise these guys in a humane manner and have someone come to the farm, and then bring it to a butcher. Funny, I work all day to preserve life, I also feel a responsibility to decrease suffering and stress to all animals, even food animals This is a very complex, and emotional, issue. You are indeed correct that the animal is dead, and that is sad. You are correct that if one is vegan one will not contribute to the use of animals. The problem is that the majority of humans are not, and likely never will be, vegan. Therefore, the issue becomes how do we obtain our food in the most ethical and humane way possible.
I do garden and grow vegetables. But people want milk, and eggs, and meat.
I personally want to start this goat farm because I am a veterinarian and a good (and Kosher) client of mine raises goats for milk. And as all the milk industry does, this produces a “by product”, which is of course babies. This is a good food source. I am trying to figure a way to raise these guys in a humane manner and have someone come to the farm, and then bring it to a butcher.
Funny, I work all day to preserve life, I also feel a responsibility to decrease suffering and stress to all animals, even food animals

]]> By: Roberta Schiff http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-11994 Roberta Schiff Thu, 23 Oct 2008 04:26:21 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-11994 The easiest way to be kosher - go vegan! No meat - no dairy - no need to separate anything. It is better for our health - for the animals and for the planet. I watched the two goats being slaughtered at the Hazon Food Conference in December 2007. Certainly this was less inhumane than a slaughterhouse, but the animals still died. When we arrived at the farm the goats were frisking around, obviously happy, no knowledge that their lives woulds soon end.When the shoicet held up their heart and lungs, it was quite obvious to me that they were from young healthy animals killed in the prime of their lives. While waiting, I began to make a cell phone call and the organizerd were very upset thinking I was taking pictures. If this is an acceptable thing to do, why not allow pictures? In the dining room that night the flesh of the goats was served at a separate table, away from all the other food, why, when chicken was on the buffet? The next day in Shabbat services a young man spoke about what a moving and emotionally meaningful experience it was for him, especially as his baby daughter had been with him. This I found to be overwhelmingly sad. Why not raise vegetables and keep some goats and chickens for companions and allow them the joy of a complete life? As Alice Walker has said, "The animals of the World were made for their own reasons, they were not made for humans anymore than women were made for men or black people for white people." SOme websites to check out. www.all-creatures.org www.upc-online.org www.goveg.com The easiest way to be kosher – go vegan!
No meat – no dairy – no need to separate anything.

It is better for our health – for the animals and for the planet.

I watched the two goats being slaughtered at the Hazon Food Conference in December 2007. Certainly this was less inhumane than a slaughterhouse, but the animals still died. When we arrived at the farm the goats were frisking around, obviously happy, no knowledge that their lives woulds soon end.When the shoicet held up their heart and lungs, it was quite obvious to me that they were from young healthy animals killed in the prime of their lives. While waiting, I began to make a cell phone call and the organizerd were very upset thinking I was taking pictures. If this is an acceptable thing to do, why not allow pictures? In the dining room that night the flesh of the goats was served at a separate table, away from all the other food, why, when chicken was on the buffet? The next day in Shabbat services a young man spoke about what a moving and emotionally meaningful experience it was for him, especially as his baby daughter had been with him. This I found to be overwhelmingly sad.

Why not raise vegetables and keep some goats and chickens for companions and allow them the joy of a complete life? As Alice Walker has said, “The animals of the World were made for their own reasons, they were not made for humans anymore than women were made for men or black people for white people.”

SOme websites to check out.
http://www.all-creatures.org
http://www.upc-online.org
http://www.goveg.com

]]> By: Dan Hochman http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-11984 Dan Hochman Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:58:36 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-11984 I am trying hard to "close the food circle" and fing it very hard while keeping kosher. I am looking to raise goats(maybe some chickens) in washington county new york. The problem is finding a place to bring them to be butchered. All the places I spoke to would only do it if I sold them the animals live and walked away. I want the meat for myself and othes, and I wish to avoid the stress to the animal found with shipping, and standing around a plant. I know the profit margin is small, but i can not believe that there is no one willing to help process these animals! I am trying hard to “close the food circle” and fing it very hard while keeping kosher.
I am looking to raise goats(maybe some chickens) in washington county new york. The problem is finding a place to bring them to be butchered. All the places I spoke to would only do it if I sold them the animals live and walked away. I want the meat for myself and othes, and I wish to avoid the stress to the animal found with shipping, and standing around a plant.
I know the profit margin is small, but i can not believe that there is no one willing to help process these animals!

]]> By: Maya http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-9864 Maya Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:26:43 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-9864 Jeff-- I understand the concerns about cost only too well. Eating local and sustainable food is one of the biggest expenses, if not the biggest, of our household. My goal in Mitzvah Meat is to strive to make this affordable as well as sustainable -- though this may take time as we develop the volume to make that possible. Unfortunately, so far it is a constant balance between making it possible and making it affordable. Anything done on a small scale that is kosher seems to wind up very costly. Kosher slaughter has fixed expenses of rabbinical supervision, shochets, mashgiach, butcher, salt, slaughterhouse expenses with an extra premium for humane, upright slaughter. Then, the costs of grass-fed and -finished meat are quite a bit more than grain-fed because they take much longer to get to market weight. The animals also grow more slowly because there isn't chronic antibiotic or hormone administration, which normally causes growth acceleration. So, the cost even from the farmer is considerable as well, though certainly deserved. And then the high price of gas for delivery impacts the overall price as well. I'm sure you already know that the price of agribusiness meat is also falsely low -- we pay or have yet to pay those costs not accounted for: Environmental costs of gasoline expenses to transport animals and grain, waste pollution, pesticides and herbicides being sprayed on feed that impact ecosystems and our own water and soil, etc. We are also paying the costs in our own health and through our taxes for medicaid and medicare with all the health issues that come along with that meat that is high in omega-6 fatty acids. This humane and sustainable meat project reflects the true cost of meat without hidden expenses or subsidies. That said, lamb happens to be particularly expensive both to buy from the farmer as well as to butcher (double the price of beef just to process!) But in pricing, we compared our price (calculated as an average) to those of the various separate cuts included in our order. Our prices actually were comparable to regular market prices for kosher, which are for factory-farmed lamb done on a large scale. I hear you on being vegetarian; I was one for many years. And I really appreciate feedback, so thank you! Jeff–

I understand the concerns about cost only too well. Eating local and sustainable food is one of the biggest expenses, if not the biggest, of our household. My goal in Mitzvah Meat is to strive to make this affordable as well as sustainable — though this may take time as we develop the volume to make that possible. Unfortunately, so far it is a constant balance between making it possible and making it affordable. Anything done on a small scale that is kosher seems to wind up very costly. Kosher slaughter has fixed expenses of rabbinical supervision, shochets, mashgiach, butcher, salt, slaughterhouse expenses with an extra premium for humane, upright slaughter. Then, the costs of grass-fed and -finished meat are quite a bit more than grain-fed because they take much longer to get to market weight. The animals also grow more slowly because there isn’t chronic antibiotic or hormone administration, which normally causes growth acceleration. So, the cost even from the farmer is considerable as well, though certainly deserved. And then the high price of gas for delivery impacts the overall price as well.

I’m sure you already know that the price of agribusiness meat is also falsely low — we pay or have yet to pay those costs not accounted for: Environmental costs of gasoline expenses to transport animals and grain, waste pollution, pesticides and herbicides being sprayed on feed that impact ecosystems and our own water and soil, etc. We are also paying the costs in our own health and through our taxes for medicaid and medicare with all the health issues that come along with that meat that is high in omega-6 fatty acids. This humane and sustainable meat project reflects the true cost of meat without hidden expenses or subsidies.

That said, lamb happens to be particularly expensive both to buy from the farmer as well as to butcher (double the price of beef just to process!) But in pricing, we compared our price (calculated as an average) to those of the various separate cuts included in our order. Our prices actually were comparable to regular market prices for kosher, which are for factory-farmed lamb done on a large scale.

I hear you on being vegetarian; I was one for many years. And I really appreciate feedback, so thank you!

]]> By: Jeff Yoskowitz http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-9784 Jeff Yoskowitz Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:14:09 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-9784 I'd hope Mitzvah meat doesn't go national because that would defeat its purposes slightly, but it would be great if other cooperatives started up around the country. The age-old problem keeps coming up, though, and that is that the cost of the meat and eggs is completely inaccessible to most people, including (especially) me. I just perused the website and it seems that when I return to New York I'll be eating vegetarian again just because of cost (which may be a good thing). And while I know the true cost of sustainable meat is higher than industrial, sustainable kosher meat prices seem to somehow be a bit exorbitant. I guess it just comes down to demand. I’d hope Mitzvah meat doesn’t go national because that would defeat its purposes slightly, but it would be great if other cooperatives started up around the country.

The age-old problem keeps coming up, though, and that is that the cost of the meat and eggs is completely inaccessible to most people, including (especially) me. I just perused the website and it seems that when I return to New York I’ll be eating vegetarian again just because of cost (which may be a good thing). And while I know the true cost of sustainable meat is higher than industrial, sustainable kosher meat prices seem to somehow be a bit exorbitant. I guess it just comes down to demand.

]]> By: Eric Schulmiller http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-9761 Eric Schulmiller Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:57:11 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-9761 We're actually discussing how our Tuv site might sign on with Mitzvah Meat at our CSA core group meeting tomorrow! We’re actually discussing how our Tuv site might sign on with Mitzvah Meat at our CSA core group meeting tomorrow!

]]> By: Samantha http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-9718 Samantha Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:57:50 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-9718 oops, i meant *less* than 15 lbs. Guess I have to be more careful when commenting on here. :) oops, i meant *less* than 15 lbs. Guess I have to be more careful when commenting on here. :)

]]> By: Simcha Daniel Burstyn http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-9707 Simcha Daniel Burstyn Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:53:41 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-9707 Wow! Can I get it in Pittsburgh? My sister in Wisconsin orders kosher beef through a butcher in Philadelphia who FedExes the meat on ice (maybe dry ice). Maybe in connection with a service like that, this could go national! Wow! Can I get it in Pittsburgh? My sister in Wisconsin orders kosher beef through a butcher in Philadelphia who FedExes the meat on ice (maybe dry ice). Maybe in connection with a service like that, this could go national!

]]> By: Samantha http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-9699 Samantha Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:08:47 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/mitzvah-meat-bringing-sustainable-kosher-meat-to-the-table/#comment-9699 How wonderful! As someone who shares a freezer with two other (wholly uninterested) roommates, I'm still waiting for the time when you can order more than 15 lbs... but this is definitely a Good Thing. How wonderful! As someone who shares a freezer with two other (wholly uninterested) roommates, I’m still waiting for the time when you can order more than 15 lbs… but this is definitely a Good Thing.

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