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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;Omnivore&#8217;s Dilemma&#8217; does&#8217;t begin to describe it&#8230;</title>
	<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/</link>
	<description>Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-5080</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-5080</guid>
		<description>Dear Alix,

I'm sorry I am only now seeing your Vietnam posts but hope this comment will be helpful.  All Buddhist Vietnamese are familiar with the concept of eating vegetarian in the context of monks, nuns and temples.  (Actually, temple food is vegan, not vegetarian, as eggs and dairy products are also proscribed.)  But at the same time, contrary to what Barney has written, very few Buddhist Vietnamese eat that way at home, so divorced from the temple context, it's not surprising that people don't know what to make of you.  If you can convey that you want to eat "temple food", that will be understood immediately. Barney is correct that if you say you want to "an chay", you also will be understand immediately. I suggest that you copy out the following sentence and SHOW it to people from whom you are buying or receiving food:

Thua ban, toi xin ban giup toi nhan duoc do an chay thoi vi toi la nguoi an chay truong.  Toi xin ban thong cam.  Cam on ban nhieu.

Even without diacritical marks, any Vietnamese person, even Catholics who have no vegetarian tradition, will understand it.  It means (in friendly but respectful language for which the speaker and the person spoken to can be of either gender):  "I would be very grateful if you would help me obtain vegetarian food, as I eat vegetarian food exclusively.  Thank you very much for your understanding."

I want to add that I was very disappointed to read in your previous posts of your decision to resume meat-eating on an occasional basis.  While you may have found sufficient self-justification in your thought process, from my perspective you utterly failed to articulate any reason for doing so that is valid on an ethical basis, and what you wrote amounted to pretty transparent rationalization.  I hope your Vietnam experience prompts you to reconsider.  I have travelled in Vietnam and can identify with your reaction to the animal abuse that occurs there on a routine basis, but I also know that there is no such thing as commercially available "humane meat" anywhere. The temptation to self-deception and rationalization is very strong in all of us (and I include myself in that).

By the way, Harry is correct that cats are eaten only very rarely, but unfortunately is wrong when he says that dog is eaten infrequently by Vietnamese.  That's certainly true in the US; in Vietnam, though, dogs are actually eaten frequently, but only by men when they get together to drink alcohol.  Dog meat is never eaten by women, and rarely served in establishments frequented by both sexes (prostitutes excepted).  It is known by various euphemisms so it is easy to be unaware of how ubiquitous it is in drinking establishments and lots of hole-in-the-wall restaurants if you don't know Vietnamese well or don't visit such places.)  Nobody says "thit cho" ("dog meat"), but if you look carefully in working class neighborhoods, you'll see lots of places that feature "thit cay", which is doesn't mean anything precise but is a universally understood euphemism for dog meat.

By the way, have you seen the documentary "The Journey of Vaan Nguyen", about a Vietnamese family resettled in Israel and their conflicted Vietnamese-Israeli identity?  (I can't resist adding that I'm an American who speaks fluent Vietnamese and Hebrew--I lived in Israel for three years and went to graduate school there--and pride myself on being one of what I suspect is a very few native English speakers who can watch it without subtitles!)  I hope you enjoy the rest of your stay in Vietnam and that you will have an opportunity to visit the Meking Delta region, where I think Vietnamese people are the most friendly of any region.  I wish you well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Alix,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry I am only now seeing your Vietnam posts but hope this comment will be helpful.  All Buddhist Vietnamese are familiar with the concept of eating vegetarian in the context of monks, nuns and temples.  (Actually, temple food is vegan, not vegetarian, as eggs and dairy products are also proscribed.)  But at the same time, contrary to what Barney has written, very few Buddhist Vietnamese eat that way at home, so divorced from the temple context, it&#8217;s not surprising that people don&#8217;t know what to make of you.  If you can convey that you want to eat &#8220;temple food&#8221;, that will be understood immediately. Barney is correct that if you say you want to &#8220;an chay&#8221;, you also will be understand immediately. I suggest that you copy out the following sentence and SHOW it to people from whom you are buying or receiving food:</p>
<p>Thua ban, toi xin ban giup toi nhan duoc do an chay thoi vi toi la nguoi an chay truong.  Toi xin ban thong cam.  Cam on ban nhieu.</p>
<p>Even without diacritical marks, any Vietnamese person, even Catholics who have no vegetarian tradition, will understand it.  It means (in friendly but respectful language for which the speaker and the person spoken to can be of either gender):  &#8220;I would be very grateful if you would help me obtain vegetarian food, as I eat vegetarian food exclusively.  Thank you very much for your understanding.&#8221;</p>
<p>I want to add that I was very disappointed to read in your previous posts of your decision to resume meat-eating on an occasional basis.  While you may have found sufficient self-justification in your thought process, from my perspective you utterly failed to articulate any reason for doing so that is valid on an ethical basis, and what you wrote amounted to pretty transparent rationalization.  I hope your Vietnam experience prompts you to reconsider.  I have travelled in Vietnam and can identify with your reaction to the animal abuse that occurs there on a routine basis, but I also know that there is no such thing as commercially available &#8220;humane meat&#8221; anywhere. The temptation to self-deception and rationalization is very strong in all of us (and I include myself in that).</p>
<p>By the way, Harry is correct that cats are eaten only very rarely, but unfortunately is wrong when he says that dog is eaten infrequently by Vietnamese.  That&#8217;s certainly true in the US; in Vietnam, though, dogs are actually eaten frequently, but only by men when they get together to drink alcohol.  Dog meat is never eaten by women, and rarely served in establishments frequented by both sexes (prostitutes excepted).  It is known by various euphemisms so it is easy to be unaware of how ubiquitous it is in drinking establishments and lots of hole-in-the-wall restaurants if you don&#8217;t know Vietnamese well or don&#8217;t visit such places.)  Nobody says &#8220;thit cho&#8221; (&#8221;dog meat&#8221;), but if you look carefully in working class neighborhoods, you&#8217;ll see lots of places that feature &#8220;thit cay&#8221;, which is doesn&#8217;t mean anything precise but is a universally understood euphemism for dog meat.</p>
<p>By the way, have you seen the documentary &#8220;The Journey of Vaan Nguyen&#8221;, about a Vietnamese family resettled in Israel and their conflicted Vietnamese-Israeli identity?  (I can&#8217;t resist adding that I&#8217;m an American who speaks fluent Vietnamese and Hebrew&#8211;I lived in Israel for three years and went to graduate school there&#8211;and pride myself on being one of what I suspect is a very few native English speakers who can watch it without subtitles!)  I hope you enjoy the rest of your stay in Vietnam and that you will have an opportunity to visit the Meking Delta region, where I think Vietnamese people are the most friendly of any region.  I wish you well.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerr</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-5021</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-5021</guid>
		<description>Thanks, barney! That's really helpful. Is there anywhere we can find out the pronunciation of "an chay"? Tonal languages are very hard for English speakers. So far, this is the best help I can find: http://wikitravel.org/en/Vietnamese_phrasebook</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, barney! That&#8217;s really helpful. Is there anywhere we can find out the pronunciation of &#8220;an chay&#8221;? Tonal languages are very hard for English speakers. So far, this is the best help I can find: <a href="http://wikitravel.org/en/Vietnamese_phrasebook" rel="nofollow">http://wikitravel.org/en/Vietnamese_phrasebook</a></p>
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		<title>By: barney</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-5009</link>
		<dc:creator>barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-5009</guid>
		<description>contrary to what you believe, vegetarian way is quite popular among vietnamese, especially buddhists. you just didn't use the right terms to make them understand. if you tell them that you "an chay". they will  gladly magically make you veggie dishes in seconds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>contrary to what you believe, vegetarian way is quite popular among vietnamese, especially buddhists. you just didn&#8217;t use the right terms to make them understand. if you tell them that you &#8220;an chay&#8221;. they will  gladly magically make you veggie dishes in seconds.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-4839</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-4839</guid>
		<description>I ate plenty of meat while visiting Vietnam a couple of years ago (though we avoided poultry due to the avian flu scare at the time). It was far fresher than any meat I eat here in Israel. The Vietnamese go to the market several times a day for shopping, vegetables are sold the same day they are picked and chickens the same day they are plucked. 

Vietnam has plenty of fresh fish, so if you want to avoid meat that is an option. 

Most tourists are afraid to eat at the street vendors. I ate nearly every meal sitting on a little plastic stool (and spent about 50 cents on each one) and didn't get sick once. 

And they don't eat dog that much. It is eaten traditionally at the end of the lunar month and in the north. Most Vietnamese prefer dogs as pets, not as food. And even if a restaurant is serving it, it is usually the specialty of the house, you probably won't find it on a menu anywhere. Helps to learn how to say it in Vietnamese just in case.  

I have never heard of any modern Vietnamese eating cat. In fact, I think it might be illegal these days.

Enjoy the trip! Our month in Vietnam was the best month of our lives!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ate plenty of meat while visiting Vietnam a couple of years ago (though we avoided poultry due to the avian flu scare at the time). It was far fresher than any meat I eat here in Israel. The Vietnamese go to the market several times a day for shopping, vegetables are sold the same day they are picked and chickens the same day they are plucked. </p>
<p>Vietnam has plenty of fresh fish, so if you want to avoid meat that is an option. </p>
<p>Most tourists are afraid to eat at the street vendors. I ate nearly every meal sitting on a little plastic stool (and spent about 50 cents on each one) and didn&#8217;t get sick once. </p>
<p>And they don&#8217;t eat dog that much. It is eaten traditionally at the end of the lunar month and in the north. Most Vietnamese prefer dogs as pets, not as food. And even if a restaurant is serving it, it is usually the specialty of the house, you probably won&#8217;t find it on a menu anywhere. Helps to learn how to say it in Vietnamese just in case.  </p>
<p>I have never heard of any modern Vietnamese eating cat. In fact, I think it might be illegal these days.</p>
<p>Enjoy the trip! Our month in Vietnam was the best month of our lives!</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-4838</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 05:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-4838</guid>
		<description>Who cares if it's unkosher, it's unethical. See this video:  http://meat.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who cares if it&#8217;s unkosher, it&#8217;s unethical. See this video:  <a href="http://meat.org" rel="nofollow">http://meat.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Leah Koenig</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-4832</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah Koenig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://jcarrot.org/omnivores-dilemma-doest-begin-to-describe-it/#comment-4832</guid>
		<description>Wow Alix, thanks for describing the sites you're seeing - can't wait to see the photos you upload after your trip!  Perhaps the safest bet for your month in Vietnam would be to eat a raw diet - you can't sneak pork into fresh fruits and vegetables!  Have an amazing time :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Alix, thanks for describing the sites you&#8217;re seeing - can&#8217;t wait to see the photos you upload after your trip!  Perhaps the safest bet for your month in Vietnam would be to eat a raw diet - you can&#8217;t sneak pork into fresh fruits and vegetables!  Have an amazing time :)</p>
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