Comments on: Poultry and Penitence http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:41:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-3008 Michael Croland Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:08:27 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-3008 Correction to my previous comment: There is no reason to assume that the New York rabbis' orders to improve conditions for chickens used for kapparot has anything to do with conditions in California. Correction to my previous comment:

There is no reason to assume that the New York rabbis’ orders to improve conditions for chickens used for kapparot has anything to do with conditions in California.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-3003 Michael Croland Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:00:04 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-3003 jabbett, Also, apparently this is what conditions for chickens look like AFTER improvements were promised and presumably made: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2007/09/kapparot-chicke.html jabbett,

Also, apparently this is what conditions for chickens look like AFTER improvements were promised and presumably made: http://failedmessiah.typepad.c.....hicke.html

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2990 Michael Croland Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:10:17 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2990 jabbet, For more info, see: http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz/kapparot.html jabbet,

For more info, see: http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz/kapparot.html

]]> By: jabbett http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2921 jabbett Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:05:58 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2921 If these folks improve how the live chickens are kept, so that it's humane and no longer a public health issue, what's wrong with shechting a chicken and giving it to the needy? If you'd rather people give tzedakah so a poor person can buy a chicken, then maybe it's just a personal hang-up about actually seeing the blood required to make animals into food. Though I've never considered performing the ritual myself, I certainly echo Avi's call to "realize its depth" vis-a-vis the taking of life. If these folks improve how the live chickens are kept, so that it’s humane and no longer a public health issue, what’s wrong with shechting a chicken and giving it to the needy? If you’d rather people give tzedakah so a poor person can buy a chicken, then maybe it’s just a personal hang-up about actually seeing the blood required to make animals into food. Though I’ve never considered performing the ritual myself, I certainly echo Avi’s call to “realize its depth” vis-a-vis the taking of life.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2702 Michael Croland Sun, 09 Sep 2007 05:35:20 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2702 What irks me most about all this -- both the public health issues and the tza'ar ba'alei chayim issues associated with kapparot -- is that just about everyone acknowledges that it's perfectly acceptable to give tzedakah instead of using chickens for kapparot. It's not even like anyone says this practice is necessary! I think the efforts to improve things, as discussed in the Forward article, are a huge step in the right direction. But I'd love to see a huge push from the powers that be in the Orthodox community for tzedekah instead of chicken-waving. What irks me most about all this — both the public health issues and the tza’ar ba’alei chayim issues associated with kapparot — is that just about everyone acknowledges that it’s perfectly acceptable to give tzedakah instead of using chickens for kapparot. It’s not even like anyone says this practice is necessary!

I think the efforts to improve things, as discussed in the Forward article, are a huge step in the right direction. But I’d love to see a huge push from the powers that be in the Orthodox community for tzedekah instead of chicken-waving.

]]> By: Rabbi Avi Finegold http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2656 Rabbi Avi Finegold Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:24:25 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2656 I never denied the fact that there is a tenuous connection between kapparot and authenticity, in fact the article i linked to clearly points this out. The "disturbing literalization" that you refer to though, is in fact the basis for many of the korbanot that the torah lists. I never denied the fact that there is a tenuous connection between kapparot and authenticity, in fact the article i linked to clearly points this out. The “disturbing literalization” that you refer to though, is in fact the basis for many of the korbanot that the torah lists.

]]> By: chillul Who? http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2655 chillul Who? Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:10:46 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/poultry-and-penitence/#comment-2655 From what I remember, kapparot is a very recent custom with almost no textual legs to stand on. (Not to mention a somewhat disturbing literalization of vicarious atonement.) One fellow in my shul growing up, one of the gabbaim actually, was so opposed to the shady, avoda-zara-dik practice that he just wouldn't do it at all. Instead he would put aside some cash erev yom kipur morning for charity, and recite the line from Mishlei/proverbs, "Tsedaka tatsil memavet". (Charity saves from death) From what I remember, kapparot is a very recent custom with almost no textual legs to stand on. (Not to mention a somewhat disturbing literalization of vicarious atonement.)

One fellow in my shul growing up, one of the gabbaim actually, was so opposed to the shady, avoda-zara-dik practice that he just wouldn’t do it at all. Instead he would put aside some cash erev yom kipur morning for charity, and recite the line from Mishlei/proverbs, “Tsedaka tatsil memavet”. (Charity saves from death)

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