As for vegetarian being more sustainable that is not correct. Some farms are best suited to producing grasses, forbs, legumes and other plant products that humans cannot eat. Our farm is not suited to arable agriculture. It must be in permanent pastures to be productive. I can’t eat what my sheep eat but I can eat them.

Humans evolved to be omnivores. It is impossible for a strict vegetarian to have a balanced diet. You must as a minimum eat B vitamins either synthetically produced or get them from animal products. Why would you go against millions of years of evolution to choose a diet that is neither balanced nor environmentally sound?

There is a world of difference between confinement fed factory farming and a dissassembly line slaughtering plant vs a forage finished, humanely killed in a small plant animal both in the quality of meat and the quality of life the animal has.

If the person doing the kosher slaughter is skilled and it’s done right it is a wonderful way for a sheep to provide a lot of tasty meat.

Oh and you don’t have to hang it, it is certainly possible to eat it right away. It will generally have more flavor if hung and aged for a while but the solution to that is to butcher an older sheep from a breed noted for producing tasty tender mutton.

i just cant´t understand why the jews are so brutal when they butcher an animal. See what i want to say isn´t it better when the animal get shot in the head then the throat gets cut up? Anyway there are too many psycho jews working in slaughterhouses and they can live their fantasy there.

Sieg Heil

To add perspective, I am a committed eco-omnivore (committed to both sides of that statement) which today (different from 20 years ago) might be more difficult than being a vegetarian. I have killed my meat to eat it - but not on a regular basis (I live in a city afterall). I have raised crops to feed myself and my family. I respect and nurture vegetarianism - even though I am frequently disrespected due to my well informed choice. I repeat - FREQUENTLY DISRESPECTED.

What comes out clearly in the posts above is the fuzzy schism that is growing within the vegetarian/vegan movements. Vegetarians who have made their choice based on a love of animals versus those who have made their choice based on fundamentals of health and the environment.

The return to roots farming has many enviro-originating vegetarians questioning a staunch position against eating animals. It seems that some animal-originating vegetarians see that the organic/free range movements are more of a threat than McDonalds ever was.

I think this debate is good and will monitor this with great interest.

I haven’t even addressed the kosher side of this and only will to state that setting up the slaughtering and eating of Empire Kosher chicken as the moral equivalent of eating and slaughtering organic free-range chicken is the ultimate straw-man argument.

Of course Empire’s practices are repugnent. As observent Jewish environmentalists who choose to eat meat, we should no more eat Empire Chicken than Tysons or Perdue.

I hope as we continue this discussion we can make sure to focus on the clear differences between agribusiness and the organic/free range food industry.

After reading this entire debate, I only thought now to look at Hazon’s vision and mission. There is a great deal in there about exploration, journeys, engagement, and it seems to me that shechting an animal at the food conference fits right in with that mission. The idea is to give people the opportunity to voluntarily witness something they have likely never witnessed and decide about meat-eating on their own. Those who have already decided about meat-eating, one way or another, may or may not change their minds based on what they experience.

Given Hazon’s mission, and the fact that this is the Food Conference, it seems the perfect place to shecht an animal for the purposes of coming to a greater understanding of what meat-eating involves, rather than in some separate forum. Those who are appalled have the choice of not witnessing the slaughter.

Those who feel appalled that Hazon would even consider this action and don’t want to financially support it through their conference dues can decide not to go. Several of the posts expressing outright disgust seem to hold the belief that as an environmental organization, Hazon should automatically endorse vegetarianism. But Hazon is not the Jewish Sierra Club, or PETA. Their mission indicates that rather than taking positions, they engage in experiences to explore issues. In that light, it seems obvious to me how they could consider such a “barbaric act” as shechting a goat at the food conference.

As pretty much the original activist for Jewish vegetarianism in N. America [beginning in the 1970s, I founded and led the JVNA, published the “Jewish Vegetarian Sprout” newsletter, and authored pamphlets listing the reasons Jews should be vegetarians to which probably not much has been added in the 30 years since], I hope I have some standing to say that Nigel’s idea sounds to me like a fairly good one.

The killing and eating of animals is (excuse the pun) the unacknowledged elephant in the room at nearly every Jewish banquet and simcha. (Waste, gluttony, and self-poisoning junk foods lurk in the backgrounds as well). It sounds like the Hazon food conference will feature plenty of dead creatures.

Why not face the implications and consequences by participating in the actual killing which meat-eating necessitates? Otherwise the kosher carnivore is like Mitt Romney, advocating avidly for somebody to die in Iraq as long as it’s not his strapping young sons.

I would wager that gathering to watch an actual sheep having its throat slit would turn almost all the observers into vegetarians, as it should. Perhaps some videos from Postville and other kosher slaughterhouses would have the same effect, but maybe not.

If you can’t stand to kill it, don’t eat it. Since Hazon ought (it seems to me) to stand for food which is humane, sustainable, minimally polluting and carbon-producing, healthful, and holy, that should mean (among other standards) vegetarian. This demonstration might (at some price– but at least not a hidden, denial-ridden cost) remind us all of that.

A happy and kosher (in all senses) New Year to everyone, and to all of humanity and all of Gd’s creatures.

1) a goat was has never been schected at Freedman. In the summer 05 Adamah, Shalom schected a lamb. Important to point out that after many many hours of preparation, slaughter, and gutting, the lamb was found to be unkosher because of an adhesion between the heart and lungs.

2) The photo of Aitan with a lamb was not taken a Isabella Freedman. It was taken at Chubby Bunny Farm in the fall of ‘06 while I was an apprentice. We slaughtered 5 lambs. None were schected though the slaughters were done in a way resembling kosher slaughter in that a knife was used on the throat of the lambs.

As someone who has participated in both the Adamah schecting and in the slaughter of 5 lambs last fall, and as a vegetarian for the last 17 years, I have some strong beliefs on this subject. Many of the points I would make are probably repetitive.

I would agree with those who have said that any potential schecting should be also include a great deal of information on why the life and death of that particular animal is vastly different from the industrial animal slaughter industry.

Richard continues to point out that the animal-ag industry accounts for greenhouse gases, but we need to also recognize that on small farms, animals are part of a cycle that is healthy for the environment. Animals provide nutrients for the soil that are otherwise brought in through shipping compost. Shipping anything, needless to say, involves carbon emissions. They also provide localized protein. Much healthier for the environment than getting that protein from industrial processed soy. And I say this as a vegetarian.

I also want to pass on a teaching of the farmer I worked for at Chubby Bunny, Dan (pictured in yellow overalls in the original blog). Dan liked to remind me that “with dairy, comes death.” This is something that vegetarians who do consume dairy products often don’t realize. That even on the most environmentally and animal-friendly farms, getting dairy from animals requires impregnating the mothers each year. The animals that come as a result are often either male or unwanted females. A farmer cannot afford to feed the extra males (you only need one male to impregnate the entire herd) or extra females if the herd is already the size she/he wants.

I learned a lot about environmental eating from living and working with Dan. Almost all of his food came from his farm or nearby farmers. The lambs and pigs and chickens slaughtered in the fall provided the majority of his meat intake through the winter (while he warmed his house with wood instead of oil). The sheep were slaughtered with intential, and with gratitude, and certainly not with pleasure. It was emotionally very difficult.

But even though I disagree with the reasoning of most people who have posted against slaughtering at the conference, I still have to question it. Are people really getting the experience? It seems to removed. Too removed from the full cycle. But then again, we’d be connecting to a tradition of celebrating a gathering of people with the slaughter and sharing of an animal.

“[B]ringing a goat to a public slaughter seems that it would really stress the animal. It would not necessarily create an atmosphere of respect and kindness for the animal prior to its slaughter. And I feel that it would be very difficult to turn it into something other than a dark spectacle. Ultimately, I worry that it would be done as a way almost to prove a point.

It may be a good point, but that doesn’t matter to the goat. And therefore, I’m not sure that it really addresses the point at all.”