Comments on: Speaking of Meat… http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:35:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Stephen Mendelsohn http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2297 Stephen Mendelsohn Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:39:31 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2297 BS"D I have been a guest in the homes of Orthodox PETA-bashing omnivores on Shabbat or Yom Tov where my refusal to eat the egg-laden challah provoked a discussion of factory farming. I would mention the horrors of factory egg farming, where the baby chicks are selected by sex, with the females going to debeaking and confinement in battery cages (work camps?) and often forced molted (put on a starvation diet, just like ...) while the males are suffocated in garbage bags or macerated in woodchippers. Others at the table would respond "chicken holocaust," to which I would respond, "You said it, not me." PETA's "Holocaust on Your Plate" campaign a few years back may have been highly offensive, but we need to understand the evils of factory farming that would lead many to make this sort of analogy. While there are many obvious similarities between concentration camps and factory farms; there can be no equating of the six million kedoshim with farmed animals. Only humans are created in G-d's image; if this fundamental Jewish idea is "speciesist," so be it. We simply need to describe the very real horrors of factory farms and let others make the analogy for themselves, without putting pictures of Jews next to pictures of pigs or battery hens. BS”D

I have been a guest in the homes of Orthodox PETA-bashing omnivores on Shabbat or Yom Tov where my refusal to eat the egg-laden challah provoked a discussion of factory farming. I would mention the horrors of factory egg farming, where the baby chicks are selected by sex, with the females going to debeaking and confinement in battery cages (work camps?) and often forced molted (put on a starvation diet, just like …) while the males are suffocated in garbage bags or macerated in woodchippers. Others at the table would respond “chicken holocaust,” to which I would respond, “You said it, not me.”

PETA’s “Holocaust on Your Plate” campaign a few years back may have been highly offensive, but we need to understand the evils of factory farming that would lead many to make this sort of analogy. While there are many obvious similarities between concentration camps and factory farms; there can be no equating of the six million kedoshim with farmed animals. Only humans are created in G-d’s image; if this fundamental Jewish idea is “speciesist,” so be it. We simply need to describe the very real horrors of factory farms and let others make the analogy for themselves, without putting pictures of Jews next to pictures of pigs or battery hens.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2293 Michael Croland Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:39:53 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2293 Re Gloria and Gersh's conversation: I think the Holocaust/animals analogy offends easily and should only be used delicately and in the proper context, which is why I generally avoid using it these days. That being said, I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand simply because people might be offended by it. Charles Patterson's book Eternal Treblinka (mentioned by Gloria) is a very thoughtful, respectful masterpiece that examines various tenets of the comparison in an academic style and an appropriate context. It's highly recommended. Re Gloria and Gersh’s conversation:

I think the Holocaust/animals analogy offends easily and should only be used delicately and in the proper context, which is why I generally avoid using it these days.

That being said, I don’t think it should be dismissed out of hand simply because people might be offended by it. Charles Patterson’s book Eternal Treblinka (mentioned by Gloria) is a very thoughtful, respectful masterpiece that examines various tenets of the comparison in an academic style and an appropriate context. It’s highly recommended.

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2284 Leah Koenig Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:55:24 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2284 Alix - life just seems to get less and less black and white as I get older. It's kind of upsetting actually - though, being a militant vegan like I used to be wasn't necessarily any easier. Alix - life just seems to get less and less black and white as I get older. It’s kind of upsetting actually - though, being a militant vegan like I used to be wasn’t necessarily any easier.

]]> By: Gersh http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2278 Gersh Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:46:20 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2278 Gloria, Valuing a human life over the life of an animal may be "speciesist", but if we're going for the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy, more authorities eat meat than don't. As much as I love Isaac Bashevis Singer's stories, I wouldn't ask him how to to live my life, just as I wouldn't ask my rabbi how to write a computer program. Have a great day. Gloria,
Valuing a human life over the life of an animal may be “speciesist”, but if we’re going for the “appeal to authority” logical fallacy, more authorities eat meat than don’t.

As much as I love Isaac Bashevis Singer’s stories, I wouldn’t ask him how to to live my life, just as I wouldn’t ask my rabbi how to write a computer program.

Have a great day.

]]> By: Alix http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2267 Alix Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:19:54 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2267 Leah, It's nice to read others' struggles with the same issue. This week I had dinner with an old college friend, the very same one I lived with my sophomore year when I became a vegetarian. I think I did it in some part, because in living with one, I realized how easy it was to be vegetarian. We met at a great vegan restaurant in Berkeley, we hadn't seen each other in over a year, and one of the first things she told me was that she had started eating meat again. After so many years (almost 20) as a vegetarian (and no fish), her body developed a negative reaction to soy. While I have not had that happen, I do wonder about the consumption of too much soy, both because I've heard it's not good for women who are considered at high risk for breast cancer like myself, and because so many soy products are so overly-processed. While mentally I am much closer to eating meat than I have been in years, I still cannot bring myself to take that step. Yet. But hearing that this friend of mine had gone back to eating meat did seem like an end of an era kind of thing... Leah,
It’s nice to read others’ struggles with the same issue. This week I had dinner with an old college friend, the very same one I lived with my sophomore year when I became a vegetarian. I think I did it in some part, because in living with one, I realized how easy it was to be vegetarian. We met at a great vegan restaurant in Berkeley, we hadn’t seen each other in over a year, and one of the first things she told me was that she had started eating meat again. After so many years (almost 20) as a vegetarian (and no fish), her body developed a negative reaction to soy. While I have not had that happen, I do wonder about the consumption of too much soy, both because I’ve heard it’s not good for women who are considered at high risk for breast cancer like myself, and because so many soy products are so overly-processed. While mentally I am much closer to eating meat than I have been in years, I still cannot bring myself to take that step. Yet. But hearing that this friend of mine had gone back to eating meat did seem like an end of an era kind of thing…

]]> By: Gloria Feldscher http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2266 Gloria Feldscher Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:53:57 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2266 Gersh, Your response to my post is flavored with speciesism. Be that as it may, my stand is supported by thinkers far greater than I. ECC.3:19 - "...they all have one breath...so that man hath no preeminence above a beast." The modern Tzaddik, Isaac Bashevis Singer: "As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in behavior their toward creatures, all men were Nazis." German Jewish philosopher, Theodor Adorno: "Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals." Author Charles Patterson of Columbia University wrote the quintessential book on the connection between our treatment of animals and the Holocaust, "Eternal Treblinka-- Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust. A must read for both Jews and Christians. He dedicated the book to Isaac Singer. Shalom! Gersh,

Your response to my post is flavored with speciesism. Be that as it may, my stand is supported by thinkers far greater than I.

ECC.3:19 - “…they all have one breath…so that man hath no preeminence above a beast.”

The modern Tzaddik, Isaac Bashevis Singer: “As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in behavior their toward creatures, all men were Nazis.”

German Jewish philosopher, Theodor Adorno: “Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they’re only animals.”

Author Charles Patterson of Columbia University wrote the
quintessential book on the connection between our treatment of animals and the Holocaust, “Eternal Treblinka– Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust. A must read for both Jews and Christians. He dedicated the book to Isaac Singer.

Shalom!

]]> By: Gloria Feldscher http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2265 Gloria Feldscher Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:52:07 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2265 Gersh, Your response to my post is flavored with speciesism. Be that as it may, stand is supported by thinkers far greater than I. ECC.3:19 - "...they all have one breath...so that man hath no preeminence above a beast." The modern Tzaddik, Isaac Bashevis Singer: "As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in behavior their toward creatures, all men were Nazis." German Jewish philosopher, Theodor Adorno: "Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals." Author Charles Patterson of Columbia University wrote the quintessential book on the connection between our treatment of animals and the Holocaust, "Eternal Treblinka-- Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocast. A must read for both Jews and Christians. He dedicated the book to Isaac Singer. Shalom! Gersh,

Your response to my post is flavored with speciesism. Be that as it may, stand is supported by thinkers far greater than I.

ECC.3:19 - “…they all have one breath…so that man hath no preeminence above a beast.”

The modern Tzaddik, Isaac Bashevis Singer: “As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in behavior their toward creatures, all men were Nazis.”

German Jewish philosopher, Theodor Adorno: “Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they’re only animals.”

Author Charles Patterson of Columbia University wrote the
quintessential book on the connection between our treatment of animals and the Holocaust, “Eternal Treblinka– Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocast. A must read for both Jews and Christians. He dedicated the book to Isaac Singer.

Shalom!

]]> By: Gersh http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2244 Gersh Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:41:26 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2244 Gloria, Thanks for teaching me a new word today -- that's not happened in years. However, no thanks for comparing the suffering of innocent Jews to the suffering of innocent animals. If you're trying to make a point, the only one I can see in your (blessedly brief) screed is that you're a poor debater. Gloria,
Thanks for teaching me a new word today — that’s not happened in years. However, no thanks for comparing the suffering of innocent Jews to the suffering of innocent animals. If you’re trying to make a point, the only one I can see in your (blessedly brief) screed is that you’re a poor debater.

]]> By: Gloria Feldscher http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2232 Gloria Feldscher Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:23:51 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/speaking-of-meat/#comment-2232 I cannot batten on the slaughtered bodies of the beautiful, gentle animals condemned for food.Being aware of the suffering they endure to feed us evokes a dark deja-vu to the Holocaust. I stand with Isaac Bashevis Singer who wisely and humanely declared: "I'm not eating meat for the animals' sake." I cannot batten on the slaughtered bodies of the beautiful, gentle animals condemned for food.Being aware of the suffering they endure to feed us evokes a dark deja-vu to the Holocaust. I stand with Isaac Bashevis Singer who wisely and humanely declared: “I’m not eating meat for the animals’ sake.”

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