Comments on: The Great Seitan?? http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:45:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Eric Schulmiller http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5576 Eric Schulmiller Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:47:10 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5576 I disagree, Elaine. My question is not meant to marginalize vegan foods. Farm-fresh vegetables or fruits from my CSA are as much "vegan foods" as seitan or tempeh. My point was about the application of ingredients. I just find that in most recipes, having one ingredient "imitate" another turns out to be a poor substitute for the real thing - whether you're imitating an animal, vegetable or mineral, the principal is the same. I disagree, Elaine.

My question is not meant to marginalize vegan foods. Farm-fresh vegetables or fruits from my CSA are as much “vegan foods” as seitan or tempeh. My point was about the application of ingredients. I just find that in most recipes, having one ingredient “imitate” another turns out to be a poor substitute for the real thing - whether you’re imitating an animal, vegetable or mineral, the principal is the same.

]]> By: Elaine Vigneault http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5575 Elaine Vigneault Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:05:10 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5575 "Is veganizing meat recipes really the best way to honor the plethora of meat-free choices available to us" As someone who have been an almost life-long vegetarian, I welcome new and interesting veg foods of any sort. I don't consider veganizing recipes to be anything other than providing me with more food choices. More to the point: The only way anyone could ask your question seriously is if they take meat as the default and marginalize veg*n foods. “Is veganizing meat recipes really the best way to honor the plethora of meat-free choices available to us”

As someone who have been an almost life-long vegetarian, I welcome new and interesting veg foods of any sort. I don’t consider veganizing recipes to be anything other than providing me with more food choices.

More to the point: The only way anyone could ask your question seriously is if they take meat as the default and marginalize veg*n foods.

]]> By: Eric Schulmiller http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5379 Eric Schulmiller Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:10:50 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5379 Hey, Leah, I believe we have a troll on our hands. Hey, Leah, I believe we have a troll on our hands.

]]> By: Besse Paix http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5378 Besse Paix Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:04:58 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5378 You wrote, "How offended should we be by either side appropriating Hezbollah as a rallying cry? Is this just one step above “food Nazis,” or is it more permissible? What if A.B. had called vegans “Al Qaeda?” “Hamas?”" I believe a more offensive term for the vegans would be Zionists. Just saying. You wrote, “How offended should we be by either side appropriating Hezbollah as a rallying cry? Is this just one step above “food Nazis,” or is it more permissible? What if A.B. had called vegans “Al Qaeda?” “Hamas?””

I believe a more offensive term for the vegans would be Zionists. Just saying.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5242 Michael Croland Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:07:46 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5242 Eric, you say the Bourdain quote and this topic raise a lot of question for you – as a Jew, in part – but here's the key part of it in my eyes: "To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living." What we're talking about is veal stock (veal should be a no-no to kosher consumers; see http://tinyurl.com/3cbydn) and demi-glace (typically made with veal stock), pork fat and sausage (definite no-nos to Jews), organ meat (if we're talking about foie gras, this should be a no-no to anyone concerned about tza'ar ba'alei chayim; see http://tinyurl.com/33txsw), and stinky cheese (I'm not an expert on this, but I'm *guessing* that one thing that makes some cheeses particularly smelly is rennet—typically enzymes from cow's stomachs that are used to make the cheese—and it should be noted that cheeses with conventional rennet are off limits to kosher consumers). So where does that leave Jews concerned about food issues? Far, far away from Bourdain … and maybe even a little offended! p.s. Mollyjade, here's a shameless plug for another blog that might interest you: heebnvegan.blogspot.com :) Eric, you say the Bourdain quote and this topic raise a lot of question for you – as a Jew, in part – but here’s the key part of it in my eyes: “To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living.”

What we’re talking about is veal stock (veal should be a no-no to kosher consumers; see http://tinyurl.com/3cbydn) and demi-glace (typically made with veal stock), pork fat and sausage (definite no-nos to Jews), organ meat (if we’re talking about foie gras, this should be a no-no to anyone concerned about tza’ar ba’alei chayim; see http://tinyurl.com/33txsw), and stinky cheese (I’m not an expert on this, but I’m *guessing* that one thing that makes some cheeses particularly smelly is rennet—typically enzymes from cow’s stomachs that are used to make the cheese—and it should be noted that cheeses with conventional rennet are off limits to kosher consumers).

So where does that leave Jews concerned about food issues? Far, far away from Bourdain … and maybe even a little offended!

p.s. Mollyjade, here’s a shameless plug for another blog that might interest you: heebnvegan.blogspot.com :)

]]> By: mollyjade http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5239 mollyjade Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:26:57 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5239 There's a history of calling vegans (and environmentalists in general) terrorists. Humor has the power to help us turn difficult subjects upside down and look at them from a different angle. It lets us put things into perspective. I think Hezbollah Tofu is meant to be in this spirit. As far as mock meats, I think there's a world of difference between the seitan shown above and a tofu dog. As a vegan Jew, I'm really glad I came across this post and this blog. I'll be back often. (Full disclosure: I plan to contribute to Hezbollah Tofu. And I think I can safely say that the blog as a whole welcomes discussions like these. Thanks for holding us up to the light.) There’s a history of calling vegans (and environmentalists in general) terrorists. Humor has the power to help us turn difficult subjects upside down and look at them from a different angle. It lets us put things into perspective. I think Hezbollah Tofu is meant to be in this spirit.

As far as mock meats, I think there’s a world of difference between the seitan shown above and a tofu dog.

As a vegan Jew, I’m really glad I came across this post and this blog. I’ll be back often. (Full disclosure: I plan to contribute to Hezbollah Tofu. And I think I can safely say that the blog as a whole welcomes discussions like these. Thanks for holding us up to the light.)

]]> By: Eric Schulmiller http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5238 Eric Schulmiller Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:23:19 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5238 For the most part, I prefer real veggies to fake meat, too. Then again, Angelica Kitchen makes an amazing seitan Reuben! Mark Bittman's book is great, but why does it seem like every other recipe he introduces in the NYTimes has bacon-wrapped scallops in it?? For the most part, I prefer real veggies to fake meat, too. Then again, Angelica Kitchen makes an amazing seitan Reuben! Mark Bittman’s book is great, but why does it seem like every other recipe he introduces in the NYTimes has bacon-wrapped scallops in it??

]]> By: Katie http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5237 Katie Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:53:06 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5237 I am a little irked by the "Hezbollah Tofu" name. Hopefully their cookbook won't have that name. Overall I'd say that like Leah I prefer vegetarian dishes that work on their own - lately I've been cooking a lot from Mark Bittman's "How to Cook Everything Vegetarian" and he espouses a similar philosophy. However, I think there's room for the mock meat stuff, especially for people who are changing to a less animal-centered diet later in life (sort of the Linda McCartney approach). I made Bittman's version of ma po tofu the other night, and my husband had no idea that the "ground beef" was really crumbled tempeh. I am a little irked by the “Hezbollah Tofu” name. Hopefully their cookbook won’t have that name.
Overall I’d say that like Leah I prefer vegetarian dishes that work on their own - lately I’ve been cooking a lot from Mark Bittman’s “How to Cook Everything Vegetarian” and he espouses a similar philosophy. However, I think there’s room for the mock meat stuff, especially for people who are changing to a less animal-centered diet later in life (sort of the Linda McCartney approach). I made Bittman’s version of ma po tofu the other night, and my husband had no idea that the “ground beef” was really crumbled tempeh.

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5235 Leah Koenig Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:43:09 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-great-seitan/#comment-5235 Fascinating post, Eric! As a food writer, I often think about how my vegetarian diet limits my career - I could never review restaurants or make it as a travel writer, for example, b/c I cannot eat half the things on the menu, or served in other countries. That said, I think Bourdain is not just out of line, but incorrect to suggest that there is no joy in a vegetarian diet. As for your "mockballs and tofu weenie in a bun" question - I generally prefer making vegetarian dishes that sing on their own (via the farmers' market veggies you mention), without the need for "fake" meat. Still, there are some restaurants in New York (and elsewhere), God bless 'em, that can make seitan do incredibly delicious things. And I'm discovering that it's not so hard to replicate some of those delicious dishes at home. Fascinating post, Eric! As a food writer, I often think about how my vegetarian diet limits my career - I could never review restaurants or make it as a travel writer, for example, b/c I cannot eat half the things on the menu, or served in other countries.

That said, I think Bourdain is not just out of line, but incorrect to suggest that there is no joy in a vegetarian diet.

As for your “mockballs and tofu weenie in a bun” question - I generally prefer making vegetarian dishes that sing on their own (via the farmers’ market veggies you mention), without the need for “fake” meat. Still, there are some restaurants in New York (and elsewhere), God bless ‘em, that can make seitan do incredibly delicious things. And I’m discovering that it’s not so hard to replicate some of those delicious dishes at home.

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