Comments on: The Kosher Fish Scandal http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:21:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: jabbett http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-5394 jabbett Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:00:06 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-5394 There is a distinct halachic difference between the issue of "battel" and the issue of "dairy equipment." This is an oversimplification, but when a treyf minority ingredient that was introduced by accident cannot be distinguished from the kosher majority ingredients, the treyf becomes "battel" (nullified) to the degree that the treyf no longer halachically exists, and the food is fully kosher. Note that intentional addition of tiny amounts of non-kosher food is still prohibited outright. (The details are more complicated, and I encourage you to reference _The Laws of Kashrus_ by Binyomin Forst for a full treatment.) When a pareve food is cooked with vessels that are halachically dairy, there are special rules which govern how they may be consumed -- specifically, they may be eaten after meat, but not along with meat. (So pareve cookies made with dairy-equipment (DE) chocolate chips could follow immediately a meat meal with no waiting, but could not be served on the same plate as meat.) It is unfortunate that certain certifiers do not trust consumers to properly handle DE situations and will label DE foods as dairy, but in this specific case, your comparison to battel is inappropriate. Scrutinize the OU, but you needn't knock the halacha. There is a distinct halachic difference between the issue of “battel” and the issue of “dairy equipment.” This is an oversimplification, but when a treyf minority ingredient that was introduced by accident cannot be distinguished from the kosher majority ingredients, the treyf becomes “battel” (nullified) to the degree that the treyf no longer halachically exists, and the food is fully kosher. Note that intentional addition of tiny amounts of non-kosher food is still prohibited outright. (The details are more complicated, and I encourage you to reference _The Laws of Kashrus_ by Binyomin Forst for a full treatment.)

When a pareve food is cooked with vessels that are halachically dairy, there are special rules which govern how they may be consumed — specifically, they may be eaten after meat, but not along with meat. (So pareve cookies made with dairy-equipment (DE) chocolate chips could follow immediately a meat meal with no waiting, but could not be served on the same plate as meat.)

It is unfortunate that certain certifiers do not trust consumers to properly handle DE situations and will label DE foods as dairy, but in this specific case, your comparison to battel is inappropriate. Scrutinize the OU, but you needn’t knock the halacha.

]]> By: Ben http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4607 Ben Sun, 17 Feb 2008 02:58:53 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4607 See: http://www.kashrutnews.com/2008/02/ou-responds-to-allegations-made-against.html See: http://www.kashrutnews.com/200.....ainst.html

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4250 Michael Croland Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:52:54 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4250 My comment last night evolved into a blog post (on heebnvegan) this morning. Thanks for the info, inspiration, and opportunity. :-) http://heebnvegan.blogspot.com/2008/01/gefilte-shmefilte-one-of-those.html My comment last night evolved into a blog post (on heebnvegan) this morning. Thanks for the info, inspiration, and opportunity. :-)

http://heebnvegan.blogspot.com.....those.html

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4249 Michael Croland Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:51:18 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4249 Re: "While he was required to observe the production line at all times, he spent a great deal of time in an office on a computer, or was simply absent." * Oftentimes, the people charged with inspecting slaughter facilities for safety, animal welfare, or kashrut reasons are simply not where they're supposed to be. * In the wake of the 2004 AgriProcessors scandal, a subsequent USDA report (http://tinyurl.com/ynwn2q) found that an inspector at the world's largest glatt kosher slaughterhouse "spends a lot of time in the government office playing computer games on the government computer." * Government inspectors who should hypothetically be enforcing the Humane Slaughter Act are also typically MIA or impotent to actually change what they see. In the words of Arthur Hughes (president of the National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals): “We are the people who are charged by Congress with enforcing [the Humane Slaughter Act], but most of our inspectors have little to no access to those areas of the plants where animals are being handled and slaughtered.” Felicia Nastor (food-safety director for the Government Accountability Project) adds, “Federal inspectors check paperwork, not food, and are prohibited from removing feces and other contaminants before products are stamped with the purple USDA seal of approval.” To read more, see: http://tinyurl.com/26edcs. Re: “While he was required to observe the production line at all times, he spent a great deal of time in an office on a computer, or was simply absent.”

* Oftentimes, the people charged with inspecting slaughter facilities for safety, animal welfare, or kashrut reasons are simply not where they’re supposed to be.

* In the wake of the 2004 AgriProcessors scandal, a subsequent USDA report (tinyurl.com/ynwn2q) found that an inspector at the world’s largest glatt kosher slaughterhouse “spends a lot of time in the government office playing computer games on the government computer.”

* Government inspectors who should hypothetically be enforcing the Humane Slaughter Act are also typically MIA or impotent to actually change what they see. In the words of Arthur Hughes (president of the National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals): “We are the people who are charged by Congress with enforcing [the Humane Slaughter Act], but most of our inspectors have little to no access to those areas of the plants where animals are being handled and slaughtered.” Felicia Nastor (food-safety director for the Government Accountability Project) adds, “Federal inspectors check paperwork, not food, and are prohibited from removing feces and other contaminants before products are stamped with the purple USDA seal of approval.” To read more, see: http://tinyurl.com/26edcs.

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4244 Leah Koenig Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:27:14 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4244 Thanks Zelig. :) I had the same thought Sarah - clearly the author is less familiar with the ins and outs of kosher law...though I don't think that reflects negatively on her ability to report effectively in this case. Thanks Zelig. :)

I had the same thought Sarah - clearly the author is less familiar with the ins and outs of kosher law…though I don’t think that reflects negatively on her ability to report effectively in this case.

]]> By: Sarah Fenner http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4243 Sarah Fenner Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:26:41 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4243 "… Allowing a catfish into the mix would be as offensive to Jews as dropping pork into ground beef would be to Muslims." This comment strikes me as funny and a bit ironic since dropping pork into ground beef would be just as offensive to kashrut observing Jews as it would be to Muslims. “… Allowing a catfish into the mix would be as offensive to Jews as dropping pork into ground beef would be to Muslims.”

This comment strikes me as funny and a bit ironic since dropping pork into ground beef would be just as offensive to kashrut observing Jews as it would be to Muslims.

]]> By: Zelig Golden http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4242 Zelig Golden Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:47:16 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-fish-scandal/#comment-4242 Leah, You Go! The Kosher Industry is starting to look and sound like the FDA. More and more the FDA is being caught in scandal after scandal - lack of enforcement, rubber stamping industrial foods okay, and even promoting new technologies that have not been proven to be safe, and that consumers reject outright (cloning is the big story right now). It's a shame if the food values of the Jewish community are going the way of the profiteers ... We need some accountability. Or maybe, we need to get serious about our food values. Thanks Leah for your sound critique. Zelig Leah,
You Go! The Kosher Industry is starting to look and sound like the FDA. More and more the FDA is being caught in scandal after scandal - lack of enforcement, rubber stamping industrial foods okay, and even promoting new technologies that have not been proven to be safe, and that consumers reject outright (cloning is the big story right now).

It’s a shame if the food values of the Jewish community are going the way of the profiteers … We need some accountability. Or maybe, we need to get serious about our food values.

Thanks Leah for your sound critique.
Zelig

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