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	<title>Comments on: The Kosher Industry Couldn&#8217;t Care Less</title>
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	<description>Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Croland</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7115</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Croland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7115</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a quote from Menachem Lubkinsky of Kosher Today that&#039;s very telling. It&#039;s from a Failed Messiah post (http://tinyurl.com/5t4wyt) from earlier this week:

&quot;For those who expected an independent news vehicle for everything that involves kosher, that certainly did not fit the mission of Kosher Today. Our editorial view was always and continues to be to support the industry, including our exhibitors at Kosherfest, and to protect the supply of kosher foods. ... If any reader is looking for a &#039;balanced&#039; and multi-dimensional view of kosher, it will not be Kosher Today. . . . Interestingly enough, I cannot recall the last time we received a letter of complaint from an industry representative, which would seem to indicate that as far as the industry is concerned, we have been true to our mission.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a quote from Menachem Lubkinsky of Kosher Today that&#8217;s very telling. It&#8217;s from a Failed Messiah post (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/5t4wyt" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5t4wyt</a>) from earlier this week:</p>
<p>&#8220;For those who expected an independent news vehicle for everything that involves kosher, that certainly did not fit the mission of Kosher Today. Our editorial view was always and continues to be to support the industry, including our exhibitors at Kosherfest, and to protect the supply of kosher foods. &#8230; If any reader is looking for a &#8216;balanced&#8217; and multi-dimensional view of kosher, it will not be Kosher Today. . . . Interestingly enough, I cannot recall the last time we received a letter of complaint from an industry representative, which would seem to indicate that as far as the industry is concerned, we have been true to our mission.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: judi</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7099</link>
		<dc:creator>judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7099</guid>
		<description>Sorry, meant Kosher Today (still early...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, meant Kosher Today (still early&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: judi</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7098</link>
		<dc:creator>judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7098</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see it mentioned here, but Lubinsky and Kosheworld run the Kosher Food Expo, the yearly kosher product mega-summit held in NYC at the Javits Center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see it mentioned here, but Lubinsky and Kosheworld run the Kosher Food Expo, the yearly kosher product mega-summit held in NYC at the Javits Center.</p>
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		<title>By: hershey</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7095</link>
		<dc:creator>hershey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7095</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been interesting to see the &quot;wall of black&quot; lining up to allege bias against anyone who investigates Rubashkin&#039;s.  For a company who&#039;s displaced hundreds of local kosher butchers, been regularly accused of abuse to both man and beast, an objective person would have put the burden of proof on Rubashkin&#039;s to prove their claims.  But instead the people who care about kashrut and its ethical implications are attacked.  This is not Denmark, and no one here is trying to close down scheita or stop the sale of kosher meat.  But the reputation of a schochet as a &quot;ben torah&quot; has always been his calling card, and no &quot;ben torah&quot; I know would ever allow his business to be run like Rubashkins, with allegations coming again and again.  
Where is the transparency?  Every kosher butcher should be proud to show how his business is run.  Empire is, and despite the blood and mess, people can tour the facilities to see the Torah&#039;s take on slaughter.  
What I hear again and again is a sole focus on the cost and cleanliness of the meat?  Is that all that matters for kashrut?  Why is it any better than non-kosher meat again?  Because we slit the throat instead of killing it faster with a plug to the brain?  
Since Rubashkin is a Lubavitcher and concerned about kiruv, why are they not concerned that the controversy is turning non-orthodox Jews away from kashrut?  I know these stories only make me more comfortable with my decision to avoid kosher meat in favor of humanely raised and slaughtered alternatives.  Would it matter to them if they knew that they were pushing jews away from kashrut?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been interesting to see the &#8220;wall of black&#8221; lining up to allege bias against anyone who investigates Rubashkin&#8217;s.  For a company who&#8217;s displaced hundreds of local kosher butchers, been regularly accused of abuse to both man and beast, an objective person would have put the burden of proof on Rubashkin&#8217;s to prove their claims.  But instead the people who care about kashrut and its ethical implications are attacked.  This is not Denmark, and no one here is trying to close down scheita or stop the sale of kosher meat.  But the reputation of a schochet as a &#8220;ben torah&#8221; has always been his calling card, and no &#8220;ben torah&#8221; I know would ever allow his business to be run like Rubashkins, with allegations coming again and again.<br />
Where is the transparency?  Every kosher butcher should be proud to show how his business is run.  Empire is, and despite the blood and mess, people can tour the facilities to see the Torah&#8217;s take on slaughter.<br />
What I hear again and again is a sole focus on the cost and cleanliness of the meat?  Is that all that matters for kashrut?  Why is it any better than non-kosher meat again?  Because we slit the throat instead of killing it faster with a plug to the brain?<br />
Since Rubashkin is a Lubavitcher and concerned about kiruv, why are they not concerned that the controversy is turning non-orthodox Jews away from kashrut?  I know these stories only make me more comfortable with my decision to avoid kosher meat in favor of humanely raised and slaughtered alternatives.  Would it matter to them if they knew that they were pushing jews away from kashrut?</p>
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		<title>By: Leah Koenig</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7094</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah Koenig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7094</guid>
		<description>Rab Shmuel,

Listening to Rabbi Allen talk, it was clear that he was &quot;suggesting&quot; and &quot;saying,&quot; and giving both points of view of the story - yes he&#039;s got his opinion and he&#039;s not impartial (who is?) but I don&#039;t think he was &quot;claiming.&quot;

The statement written above in the Kosher Today report:

&quot;There is no evidence of any boycott of Agri products whatsoever, they say.&quot;

is a claim.  It&#039;s also not true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rab Shmuel,</p>
<p>Listening to Rabbi Allen talk, it was clear that he was &#8220;suggesting&#8221; and &#8220;saying,&#8221; and giving both points of view of the story &#8211; yes he&#8217;s got his opinion and he&#8217;s not impartial (who is?) but I don&#8217;t think he was &#8220;claiming.&#8221;</p>
<p>The statement written above in the Kosher Today report:</p>
<p>&#8220;There is no evidence of any boycott of Agri products whatsoever, they say.&#8221;</p>
<p>is a claim.  It&#8217;s also not true.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Shmuel</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7092</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Shmuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7092</guid>
		<description>If I mischaracterized your piece then I apologize. But you don&#039;t address my &quot;claim&quot; that your choice of words (and I know that you aspire to be a responsible journalist), a &quot;claim&quot; that I have substantiated in my post (btw, the use of the word &quot;claim&quot; in a vacuum typically carries with it a taint of less than truthfulness) that your choice of words paints its own portrait above and beyond the underlying message. Would I be safe in assuming that the word &quot;claim&quot; would not appear in any one of your columns about Michael Pollan? If I wanted nothing but spin, I could blog with Failed Messiah all day &amp; night.

Look, I&#039;ve got no dog in this fight - I have an ethical standard that I wouldn&#039;t eat food prepared in such a way and under such circumstances that I myself wouldn&#039;t do it. I spent time in Postville and saw first hand the circumstances under which the meat was produced. It&#039;s crappy work by any stretch of the imagination. Working with slippery, viscous animal parts and sharp knives and motorized saws is certainly not for the faint of heart. I myself have had a number of farm/forest related accidents, nearly losing a finger (tough for a guitarist), breaking my back in 1988, opening up my knee and then there are the big ones:) I&#039;m simply pointing out that the spinmeisters are busy on both sides of the fence, not just Rubashkins. Someone has to be an honest broker in this thing.

On an  unrelated note(??)I too laughed when I read the old man Rubashkin&#039;s comments as well as those of the passerbyes - they&#039;re obviously in some sort of denial - (well it looks like ole&#039; Ben Harris got his story after all.) Look, I too am troubled by many of these allegations. But by the same token, they have fueled an entire &quot;kaddish industry&quot; of conspiracy seekers (e.g. Agri staged the raid with ICE to beat the union????). I don&#039;t expect objectivity from Lubicom - they Agri&#039;s spokespersons. I thought I might find more objectivity here. Perhaps I was mistaken. My apologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I mischaracterized your piece then I apologize. But you don&#8217;t address my &#8220;claim&#8221; that your choice of words (and I know that you aspire to be a responsible journalist), a &#8220;claim&#8221; that I have substantiated in my post (btw, the use of the word &#8220;claim&#8221; in a vacuum typically carries with it a taint of less than truthfulness) that your choice of words paints its own portrait above and beyond the underlying message. Would I be safe in assuming that the word &#8220;claim&#8221; would not appear in any one of your columns about Michael Pollan? If I wanted nothing but spin, I could blog with Failed Messiah all day &amp; night.</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;ve got no dog in this fight &#8211; I have an ethical standard that I wouldn&#8217;t eat food prepared in such a way and under such circumstances that I myself wouldn&#8217;t do it. I spent time in Postville and saw first hand the circumstances under which the meat was produced. It&#8217;s crappy work by any stretch of the imagination. Working with slippery, viscous animal parts and sharp knives and motorized saws is certainly not for the faint of heart. I myself have had a number of farm/forest related accidents, nearly losing a finger (tough for a guitarist), breaking my back in 1988, opening up my knee and then there are the big ones:) I&#8217;m simply pointing out that the spinmeisters are busy on both sides of the fence, not just Rubashkins. Someone has to be an honest broker in this thing.</p>
<p>On an  unrelated note(??)I too laughed when I read the old man Rubashkin&#8217;s comments as well as those of the passerbyes &#8211; they&#8217;re obviously in some sort of denial &#8211; (well it looks like ole&#8217; Ben Harris got his story after all.) Look, I too am troubled by many of these allegations. But by the same token, they have fueled an entire &#8220;kaddish industry&#8221; of conspiracy seekers (e.g. Agri staged the raid with ICE to beat the union????). I don&#8217;t expect objectivity from Lubicom &#8211; they Agri&#8217;s spokespersons. I thought I might find more objectivity here. Perhaps I was mistaken. My apologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah Koenig</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7089</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah Koenig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7089</guid>
		<description>Rabbi Shmuel,

It is hurtful and I think incorrect for you to call the report on Rabbi Allen&#039;s experiences and observations a &quot;puff piece.&quot;  However, Aaron Rubashkin coming out yesterday saying &quot;it&#039;s all lies?&quot; I&#039;m not suggesting that Agriprocessors is as evil as the media portrays (I&#039;m not suggesting its not either).  But I will &quot;claim&quot; that that statement is a puff - of hot air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Shmuel,</p>
<p>It is hurtful and I think incorrect for you to call the report on Rabbi Allen&#8217;s experiences and observations a &#8220;puff piece.&#8221;  However, Aaron Rubashkin coming out yesterday saying &#8220;it&#8217;s all lies?&#8221; I&#8217;m not suggesting that Agriprocessors is as evil as the media portrays (I&#8217;m not suggesting its not either).  But I will &#8220;claim&#8221; that that statement is a puff &#8211; of hot air.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Shmuel</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7088</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Shmuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7088</guid>
		<description>&quot;Interestingly, after claiming that there was no boycott, Kosher Today linked to this article on their front page:&quot;

BTW - Leah, from a writing POV why does the word &quot;interesting&quot; come to mind. Ordinarily when an editor takes a position arguably at odds with those who sign his paycheck in the name of fairness and balance, words like &quot;courageous&quot; or &quot;heroic&quot; are usually employed.
Could it have to do with subtle (or nor too subtle) bias by the wordsmith who while crafting the article understands that s/he is shaping the public debate as well?
Stated another way – The puff piece on Rabbi Allen to the rescue uses the phrase “Rabbi Allen “said” (7 times),  Rabbi Allen “commented” (twice), Rabbi Allen “described” “quoted” “suggested”. Yet Lubinsky “claimed”? 

From the number of  &quot;agriposts&quot; lately (running about 50%) pretty soon Jcarrot will be the round the clock source for Postville news perhaps warranting a new by-line - &quot;All Agriprocessors - All the time&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Interestingly, after claiming that there was no boycott, Kosher Today linked to this article on their front page:&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW &#8211; Leah, from a writing POV why does the word &#8220;interesting&#8221; come to mind. Ordinarily when an editor takes a position arguably at odds with those who sign his paycheck in the name of fairness and balance, words like &#8220;courageous&#8221; or &#8220;heroic&#8221; are usually employed.<br />
Could it have to do with subtle (or nor too subtle) bias by the wordsmith who while crafting the article understands that s/he is shaping the public debate as well?<br />
Stated another way – The puff piece on Rabbi Allen to the rescue uses the phrase “Rabbi Allen “said” (7 times),  Rabbi Allen “commented” (twice), Rabbi Allen “described” “quoted” “suggested”. Yet Lubinsky “claimed”? </p>
<p>From the number of  &#8220;agriposts&#8221; lately (running about 50%) pretty soon Jcarrot will be the round the clock source for Postville news perhaps warranting a new by-line &#8211; &#8220;All Agriprocessors &#8211; All the time&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Hannah Lee</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7087</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannah Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7087</guid>
		<description>Touche&#039;, Rabbi Shmuel.  People live by the values they hold most dear.  Investigative reporters seek out their story-- at times with questionnable ethical tactics-- because they hold &quot;truth&quot; as they see it as paramount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Touche&#8217;, Rabbi Shmuel.  People live by the values they hold most dear.  Investigative reporters seek out their story&#8211; at times with questionnable ethical tactics&#8211; because they hold &#8220;truth&#8221; as they see it as paramount.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Shmuel</title>
		<link>http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/comment-page-1#comment-7082</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Shmuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jcarrot.org/the-kosher-industry-couldnt-care-less/#comment-7082</guid>
		<description>&quot;Interestingly, after claiming that there was no boycott, Kosher Today linked to this article on their front page:&quot;

“One of the most interesting articles I’ve read since the raid is writer Ben Harris’ account of his personal interactions with Sholom Rabushkin, as noted on The JTA’s blog, The Telegraph”

Leah, we must be living in interesting times.  The Harris piece could have been a plot from “Seinfeld” – it essentially said nothing. However a few tidbits were indeed “interesting” as you say. Here are a few juicy nuggets:

“Yes, I lied, hoping to convince him of my piety, and thus my trustworthiness.”
“Reporters are in no way bound by an after-the-fact request to keep things off the record. Still, I figured, it was worth keeping quiet if silence would get me a tour of the plant and a potentially more insightful interview later on.”

So perhaps a better name than “Sholom &amp; Me” (“Roger &amp; Me” was at least informative and entertaining) might have been “An account of my ethical lapses in search of a story about alleged ethical lapses.”

To paraphrase Alix “This is absolutely disheartening, but I can’t say I am surprised. I found myself actually describing myself as “anti-journalism” to a friend recently.”

Interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Interestingly, after claiming that there was no boycott, Kosher Today linked to this article on their front page:&#8221;</p>
<p>“One of the most interesting articles I’ve read since the raid is writer Ben Harris’ account of his personal interactions with Sholom Rabushkin, as noted on The JTA’s blog, The Telegraph”</p>
<p>Leah, we must be living in interesting times.  The Harris piece could have been a plot from “Seinfeld” – it essentially said nothing. However a few tidbits were indeed “interesting” as you say. Here are a few juicy nuggets:</p>
<p>“Yes, I lied, hoping to convince him of my piety, and thus my trustworthiness.”<br />
“Reporters are in no way bound by an after-the-fact request to keep things off the record. Still, I figured, it was worth keeping quiet if silence would get me a tour of the plant and a potentially more insightful interview later on.”</p>
<p>So perhaps a better name than “Sholom &amp; Me” (“Roger &amp; Me” was at least informative and entertaining) might have been “An account of my ethical lapses in search of a story about alleged ethical lapses.”</p>
<p>To paraphrase Alix “This is absolutely disheartening, but I can’t say I am surprised. I found myself actually describing myself as “anti-journalism” to a friend recently.”</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
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