Comments on: The Meat of the Argument: Do Jewish Enviros Have to Be Vegetarians? http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:06:14 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Dan Brook http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-17351 Dan Brook Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:20:10 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-17351 It seems to me that many of the people on this discussion board clinging to meat are only talking about ethics, and to a lesser extent sustainable agriculture, while ignoring human health, global warming, deforestation, species extinction, etc. that are also related to the mass production and consumption of meat. These are all Jewish issues, all Torah values, all crises fro humans and the rest of life on Earth, and therefore should all be our deepest concern. Please visit The Vegetarian Mitzvah at www.brook.com/jveg and watch A Sacred Duty: Applying Jewish Values to help Heal the World at www.ASacredDuty.org - Also visit Eco-Eating at www.brook.com/veg It seems to me that many of the people on this discussion board clinging to meat are only talking about ethics, and to a lesser extent sustainable agriculture, while ignoring human health, global warming, deforestation, species extinction, etc. that are also related to the mass production and consumption of meat. These are all Jewish issues, all Torah values, all crises fro humans and the rest of life on Earth, and therefore should all be our deepest concern.

Please visit The Vegetarian Mitzvah at http://www.brook.com/jveg

and

watch A Sacred Duty: Applying Jewish Values to help Heal the World at http://www.ASacredDuty.org –

Also visit Eco-Eating at http://www.brook.com/veg

]]> By: Hyman Rosen http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10984 Hyman Rosen Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:30:41 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10984 Never mind what I honestly believe :-) But there are lots of causes competing for people's attention. The best way to insure ethical (or any other) behavior is to make it the default choice, or at least very easy. You can keep trying to convince people to be vegetarian, but I think that the low-hanging fruit has already been picked, so to speak. If you really want to reform factory farming, the PETA approach of using video to expose cruel practices seems to me the way to go. It sparks enough outrage that legislators might be willing to take on the industry, and then once the situation has improved individual meat eaters won't have to be involved. Never mind what I honestly believe :-) But there are lots of causes competing for people’s attention. The best way to insure ethical (or any other) behavior is to make it the default choice, or at least very easy. You can keep trying to convince people to be vegetarian, but I think that the low-hanging fruit has already been picked, so to speak. If you really want to reform factory farming, the PETA approach of using video to expose cruel practices seems to me the way to go. It sparks enough outrage that legislators might be willing to take on the industry, and then once the situation has improved individual meat eaters won’t have to be involved.

]]> By: JT http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10933 JT Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:15:03 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10933 Many people responded that they feel Richard was trying to make them feel "guilty" for their meat eating ways. That is not so. He is putting the facts out there - if anyone feels guilty, it's there own conscious speaking. If you care about the environment, animals, and Jewish law, then giving up Grandma's brisket and some other comfort foods really doesn't seem like a big deal. You just have to put things into perspective and realize how your actions have consequences. Many people responded that they feel Richard was trying to make them feel “guilty” for their meat eating ways. That is not so. He is putting the facts out there – if anyone feels guilty, it’s there own conscious speaking.

If you care about the environment, animals, and Jewish law, then giving up Grandma’s brisket and some other comfort foods really doesn’t seem like a big deal. You just have to put things into perspective and realize how your actions have consequences.

]]> By: Ketzirah Carly http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10914 Ketzirah Carly Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:02:03 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10914 I'm not a vegetarian and I avoid factory farmed and slaughtered meats as much as humanly possible. This is actually much easier than many people think. It means trading 90% of the meat you eat for vegetarian fare. If we all could just go without meat a bit more we could make radical changes in how animals are raised and slaughtered. I think world-wide vegetarianism is not only unrealistic, but also unnecessary. I think sustainable agriculture being applied to animals as well is realistic, but requires a radical change of perspective about food. That's not going to be an easy change. I’m not a vegetarian and I avoid factory farmed and slaughtered meats as much as humanly possible. This is actually much easier than many people think. It means trading 90% of the meat you eat for vegetarian fare.

If we all could just go without meat a bit more we could make radical changes in how animals are raised and slaughtered. I think world-wide vegetarianism is not only unrealistic, but also unnecessary.

I think sustainable agriculture being applied to animals as well is realistic, but requires a radical change of perspective about food. That’s not going to be an easy change.

]]> By: Michael Croland http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10875 Michael Croland Thu, 04 Sep 2008 23:06:24 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10875 Re Rabbi Seidenberg's comment: "Bottom line for me is that we need to focus on reduction of harm rather than purity from sin in this issue." I suggest that the best way to reduce harm is to avoid it to the greatest extent possible. If something inherently causes tza'ar ba'alei chayim (unnecessary animal suffering), we have a choice to steer clear of it altogether so long as it's something that isn't necessary. Re Rabbi Seidenberg’s comment: “Bottom line for me is that we need to focus on reduction of harm rather than purity from sin in this issue.”

I suggest that the best way to reduce harm is to avoid it to the greatest extent possible. If something inherently causes tza’ar ba’alei chayim (unnecessary animal suffering), we have a choice to steer clear of it altogether so long as it’s something that isn’t necessary.

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10782 Leah Koenig Thu, 04 Sep 2008 13:57:35 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10782 For Michael's response, see comment 11 For more on Chipotle: http://www.chipotle.com/ :) For Michael’s response, see comment 11

For more on Chipotle: http://www.chipotle.com/

:)

]]> By: Lilliput http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10781 Lilliput Thu, 04 Sep 2008 13:53:55 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10781 Hyman, Do you see any temple and animal sacrificing going on? Furthermore - do you honestly believe that when and if Mashiach does come we'll be back sacrificing in the temple - I certainly don't think so as there has to be some point to the years of civilization since the last temple. Religios observance is grey - so say you're very lax on the Tzaar Baalei Chaaim Mitzva but maybe better at keeping others. It makes more sense that way and you don't come off as being the hypocrites like the rest of the religious jews. Hyman,

Do you see any temple and animal sacrificing going on? Furthermore – do you honestly believe that when and if Mashiach does come we’ll be back sacrificing in the temple – I certainly don’t think so as there has to be some point to the years of civilization since the last temple.

Religios observance is grey – so say you’re very lax on the Tzaar Baalei Chaaim Mitzva but maybe better at keeping others. It makes more sense that way and you don’t come off as being the hypocrites like the rest of the religious jews.

]]> By: Lilliput http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10774 Lilliput Thu, 04 Sep 2008 13:42:11 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10774 What is Chipotle and where can we read Michael Croland's response? What is Chipotle and where can we read Michael Croland’s response?

]]> By: Rabbi David Seidenberg http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10767 Rabbi David Seidenberg Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:10:47 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10767 Michael Croland's response is worth a read. Bottom line for me is that we need to focus on reduction of harm rather than purity from sin in this issue. Kind of like finding the best way to deal with teen pregnancy. ;) Michael Croland’s response is worth a read. Bottom line for me is that we need to focus on reduction of harm rather than purity from sin in this issue. Kind of like finding the best way to deal with teen pregnancy. ;)

]]> By: Hyman Rosen http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/comment-page-1#comment-10632 Hyman Rosen Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:21:05 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/the-meat-of-the-argument-judaism-and-vegetarianism/#comment-10632 I'm a confirmed meat eater of the "tasty, tasty murder" ilk. I don't believe for a second that anyone will have luck trying to convince most Jews that eating meat is un-Jewish, when the Torah is full of rules for sacrificing animals. On the other hand, I'm willing to eat ethically if it's not too inconvenient. That's going to be the job of Hechsher Tzedek and similar groups - to use the power of the free market and the bully pulpit to force meat and other food to be produced more ethically, so people like me can be principled and lazy at the same time. See what Chipotle is doing, for example. I’m a confirmed meat eater of the “tasty, tasty murder” ilk. I don’t believe for a second that anyone will have luck trying to convince most Jews that eating meat is un-Jewish, when the Torah is full of rules for sacrificing animals. On the other hand, I’m willing to eat ethically if it’s not too inconvenient. That’s going to be the job of Hechsher Tzedek and similar groups – to use the power of the free market and the bully pulpit to force meat and other food to be produced more ethically, so people like me can be principled and lazy at the same time. See what Chipotle is doing, for example.

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