Was it just me, or did the “debate” between Michael Pollan and John Mackey last night hardly seem like a debate?  My friends and I all agreed afterwards that it was more like a mutual admiration society between “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” author and the CEO of Whole Foods.

Even the Berkeley audience, which swelled to 2,000 people to fill the largest auditorium on campus, was uncharacteristically polite, hissing only once when Mackey suggested that most Americans were doing better economically than in previous years.

Let’s dwell on that one point for just a second, because as far as I was concerned, it was the one place where Mackey miserably failed. And considering he had the floor the majority of the time, that’s a pretty good record.
A question came from the audience as to whether Whole Foods and the access to organic food was elitist in that it was not easily accessible either in price or location to poorer people. Mackey cited the fact that Americans are used to spending only eight percent of their disposable income on food, while in Europe, that figure is much higher. He also said that economically, most Americans are doing much better than they have been.
Perhaps that is true. But many of us who live near poorer neighborhoods (and here in Oakland, most of us do) are very aware of the poverty in our own backyards. I recently heard a statistic that West Oakland has over 40 liquor stores, and only one grocery store.
Mackey also wasn’t so kind to his main rival, Trader Joe’s, but in his 45-minute Powerpoint presentation that began the evening, he managed to impress even Pollan by announcing several initiatives that Whole Foods is involved with, a handful of them being announced publicly for the first time.
These include investing money in people around the world to help preserve their artisan food traditions and bring them to the global market; inviting farmer’s markets to take place in Whole Foods parking lots; loaning $10 million yearly in grants to small, local farmers; going into partnership with Fair Trade and the Rainforest Alliance to ensure the quality of certain products; and lending micro loans to businesswomen in countries where their food is sourced.
Mackey also talked about how Whole Foods is working with the USDA to institute a system in which organic food would be rated, with five stars meaning that the farm has the highest standards when it comes to all the important issues: everything from its environmental practices to how its workers are treated. He envisioned this system first being used in Whole Foods, but then being adopted by everyone, so consumers could know just how organic their food was, and the difference between say, organics at Whole Foods as compared to organics at Wal-Mart.
Mackey kept stressing the point that although Whole Foods had higher standards than any market out there, and had done more to promote awareness about these issues to the general public than anyone else, he felt he could always do better. Several times he said things like “we’re not where we could be,” and when he didn’t know the answer to a question, he admitted it.
He also kept stressing the point that “big isn’t necessarily bad,” in the organics world.
In the discussion that followed Mackey’s presentation, the two men showed an easy banter that showed a great deal of mutual respect.
As Mackey reiterated in the beginning of his talk, and then again later, “Your book had a big impact on me, and caused me to do a mission-check. It was catalytic.” And later, he added, “Your book helped make Whole Foods more conscious.”
During the dialogue, Mackey asked Pollan what his vision would be, and Pollan admitted that he liked being the journalist, in that he didn’t have to present one. While he posed the question at the beginning of his book, “What should I eat?” he claimed to not really have the answers either.
A few of the things he did say was a food system less reliant on corn, where grass replaced all the corn grown for livestock in this country; and where there was more transparency in the agricultural business (again, he complimented Mackey for being so willing to not only answer but face his critics).
Mackey told Pollan that in a way, his book only confused people further about what they should eat, by showing how every time a person reaches for an avocado, they have to weigh the numerous factors: organic from Chile or locally grown but conventional and other such choices.
“Anyone who is struggling with this is halfway there, if they are even thinking about these issues,” Pollan said. “Wherever you come out on this is better than where we are now.”
There were a lot more interesting exchanges – and humorous ones too, including a moment where Mackey accused Pollan of being directly responsible for a drop in his stock prices – but that is enough from me, especially since so many others were watching via webcast. Contributors, feel free to supplement my post in however you see fit.