Comments on: Yid.Dish: Cholent with the Enemy http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/ Jews, Food, and Contemporary Issues Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:00:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: KRG http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4786 KRG Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:42:25 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4786 Hey, the solution - you can just come to my place. BUt I have to say the DS is <b>way</b> too young to think about marriage. Hey, the solution - you can just come to my place.
BUt I have to say the DS is way too young to think about marriage.

]]> By: JewWitch http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4757 JewWitch Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:44:33 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4757 Well, when you come to my house for dinner, if I pour libations to the gods, you're welcome to leave the room and I'll let you know when it's safe to come back in. And you don't have to marry your kid to mine (although if they want to, I'm not about to try to stop them, either). Well, when you come to my house for dinner, if I pour libations to the gods, you’re welcome to leave the room and I’ll let you know when it’s safe to come back in. And you don’t have to marry your kid to mine (although if they want to, I’m not about to try to stop them, either).

]]> By: KRG http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4750 KRG Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:38:52 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4750 Actually, while I wouldn't say the text doesn't have its problems, it does NOT say that Jews can't eat with non-Jews. What it says is that Jews can't go to a banquet hosted by an idol worshipper. 1. Idol worshipper is not equivalent to non-Jew. For example, Muslims would NEVER be considered idol worshippers, and according to Western commentators, Christians wouldn't either. 2. the banquet in question is one which an idol worhsipper gives for his son. It's likely that a few things are present at this banquet which are what makes it problematic: 1. libations to the idols. Very common ( and by the way, not extinct to,day) it's the pouring out of wine to the gods. Second there's the issue of what a banquet for his son is - most likely a wedding or religious feast. In the first case, the problem is mingling in which people may be tempted to match up sons and daughters (i.e. leading to intermarriage with idol worshippers) in the second case, the problem is again, an act of worship or recognition of the (false) gods. SO the problem is not actually that it forbids us to eat with idol worshippers (invite them to your house! Meet in a religiously neutral place!), however there are of course problems with what we can possibly say when our Hindu neighbor invites us to their son's wedding. THAT'S when this text becomes a big problem! Actually, while I wouldn’t say the text doesn’t have its problems, it does NOT say that Jews can’t eat with non-Jews. What it says is that Jews can’t go to a banquet hosted by an idol worshipper.
1. Idol worshipper is not equivalent to non-Jew. For example, Muslims would NEVER be considered idol worshippers, and according to Western commentators, Christians wouldn’t either.
2. the banquet in question is one which an idol worhsipper gives for his son. It’s likely that a few things are present at this banquet which are what makes it problematic: 1. libations to the idols. Very common ( and by the way, not extinct to,day) it’s the pouring out of wine to the gods. Second there’s the issue of what a banquet for his son is - most likely a wedding or religious feast. In the first case, the problem is mingling in which people may be tempted to match up sons and daughters (i.e. leading to intermarriage with idol worshippers) in the second case, the problem is again, an act of worship or recognition of the (false) gods.
SO the problem is not actually that it forbids us to eat with idol worshippers (invite them to your house! Meet in a religiously neutral place!), however there are of course problems with what we can possibly say when our Hindu neighbor invites us to their son’s wedding. THAT’S when this text becomes a big problem!

]]> By: DavidW http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4730 DavidW Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:29:27 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4730 Thanks for the help. I guess the equivalent is basically vegetable stock cubes (Osem, Telma etc). But, and now I'm getting really confused, if that is broth, what is the "vegetable stock" mentioned further down the recipe, since (unless you make real vegetable stock yourself) isn't that the same thing as the vegetable broth? Such confusion from the same language. I'm writing from London, to answer your question Leah. I found your excellent blog through my friend and foodie, Anthony Silverbrow (www.silverbrowonfood.com) who has linked here a few times. Many thanks, David. Thanks for the help. I guess the equivalent is basically vegetable stock cubes (Osem, Telma etc). But, and now I’m getting really confused, if that is broth, what is the “vegetable stock” mentioned further down the recipe, since (unless you make real vegetable stock yourself) isn’t that the same thing as the vegetable broth?

Such confusion from the same language. I’m writing from London, to answer your question Leah. I found your excellent blog through my friend and foodie, Anthony Silverbrow (www.silverbrowonfood.com) who has linked here a few times.

Many thanks, David.

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4724 Leah Koenig Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:47:05 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4724 Thanks for the clarification Katie - you can also make a quick broth with bouillion (sp?) cubes or consomme powder. (I'm rather addicted to Israel's Osem brand despite - or perhaps because - of it being filled with MSG.) Where are you writing from David? What's the equivalent phrase for "veggie broth" from where you're writing? Thanks for the clarification Katie - you can also make a quick broth with bouillion (sp?) cubes or consomme powder. (I’m rather addicted to Israel’s Osem brand despite - or perhaps because - of it being filled with MSG.)

Where are you writing from David? What’s the equivalent phrase for “veggie broth” from where you’re writing?

]]> By: Katie http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4723 Katie Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:03:32 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4723 Veggie broth is basically strained, clear vegetable soup. You can substitute water, or broth made with a little Marmite or Vegemite if you have no vegetable broth handy. Veggie broth is basically strained, clear vegetable soup. You can substitute water, or broth made with a little Marmite or Vegemite if you have no vegetable broth handy.

]]> By: DavidW http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4722 DavidW Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:51:04 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4722 For the non-Americans reading this yummy recipe, can you please clarify exactly what you mean by veggie broth. Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question; it just doesn't really mean much over here. Thanks. For the non-Americans reading this yummy recipe, can you please clarify exactly what you mean by veggie broth. Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question; it just doesn’t really mean much over here. Thanks.

]]> By: Easy Bean Farm http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4716 Easy Bean Farm Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:58:02 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4716 Leah, I would love to, however, as one of those guys in a "mixed marriage" (what marriages aren't mixed?), Dec. 25th is a hard date to navigate. Perhaps there will be other chances? Mike Leah,
I would love to, however, as one of those guys in a “mixed marriage” (what marriages aren’t mixed?), Dec. 25th is a hard date to navigate. Perhaps there will be other chances?
Mike

]]> By: Leah Koenig http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4714 Leah Koenig Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:32:03 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4714 Thanks Rosa - it definitely warms you up on a winter afternoon. No worries, Rachel, you're definitely not the only one in that camp. Mike, I love how you've found ways to incorporate Jewish values and ideas into your farming. If it makes sense with your schedule, I'd really love to meet you at Hazon's Food Conference next year (Dec 25-28) - I think you'd be inspired and heartened to meet other farmers across the country who are doing the same thing! www.hazon.org/foodconference Thanks Rosa - it definitely warms you up on a winter afternoon.

No worries, Rachel, you’re definitely not the only one in that camp.

Mike, I love how you’ve found ways to incorporate Jewish values and ideas into your farming. If it makes sense with your schedule, I’d really love to meet you at Hazon’s Food Conference next year (Dec 25-28) - I think you’d be inspired and heartened to meet other farmers across the country who are doing the same thing! http://www.hazon.org/foodconference

]]> By: Easy Bean Farm http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4709 Easy Bean Farm Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:54:58 +0000 http://jcarrot.org/yiddish-cholent-with-the-enemy/#comment-4709 I couldn't agree more. The fact is, that Jews at every single stage of history, including the one we live in, have adapted "jewish" traditions to fit the times in which they have lived. One of the reasons I think that Judaism has survived is that,in fact, part of our tradition (among many Jewish circles)is to question how, not just the lives of our ancestors, but also our own lives, relate to Jewish Law and how, with ever-changing circumstances, we can live meaningful and just lives. While many are loath to admit it, there is likely not a single Jew living today who would seamlessly slip into a Jewish community of even 200 years ago and, I would posit, there is not a single Jew alive today who follows every law, as it was set forth in the Torah, without a little bit logistical gymnastics. We know too much for that to make sense. Judaism is a LIVING tradition! The Jewish tradition of thought and argumentation displayed in the the Talmud is, to a great degree, at the heart of what it is to be Jewish. There are, I think, several ways to consider this issue. I believe that Jewish history is still unfolding and that there is no reason to believe that God's last word was issued thousands of years in the past. While it may be a bit conceited, I believe that, if the ears of Abraham were holy enough to hear the voice of God, than so are mine and yours. I also believe that our laws are created for the time in which they are issued. As a parent, I set rules for my children that are appropriate to their age. Some of the rules will be useful for the rest of their lives and some will become less and less necessary. As an organic farmer living in a very non-Jewish community, I come up against the disparity between what Jewish law dictates and what I know to be correct very often. That said, I do try and look deeply at what Jewish law's objectives might be. Two examples are Kil'Ayim and Pe'ah. As an organic farmer, the laws of Kil'Ayim that prohibit the mixing of seeds and set the distances between my vegetable crops are contrary to what I know to be the practices that best take care of the land I steward. I disregard them simply because I know better. Others have made the claim that the laws only apply to the ancient land of Israel or find other ways around them. They feel the need to justify their decisions within Jewish law. In fact, they are creating a more modern Judaism. Similarly, I could follow the laws of Pe'ah literally and leave the corners of my fields for gleaners but, in these times, doing so would really be a hollow gesture... no-one would come to glean. Instead, I choose to look at the intent of the law and make certain that a significant amount of each year's crop goes to those in need. We must also consider that we too can, and should, participate in the tradition of takkanah in order to leave this world better than we found it. Mike Jacobs www.easybeanfarm.com I couldn’t agree more. The fact is, that Jews at every single stage of history, including the one we live in, have adapted “jewish” traditions to fit the times in which they have lived. One of the reasons I think that Judaism has survived is that,in fact, part of our tradition (among many Jewish circles)is to question how, not just the lives of our ancestors, but also our own lives, relate to Jewish Law and how, with ever-changing circumstances, we can live meaningful and just lives. While many are loath to admit it, there is likely not a single Jew living today who would seamlessly slip into a Jewish community of even 200 years ago and, I would posit, there is not a single Jew alive today who follows every law, as it was set forth in the Torah, without a little bit logistical gymnastics. We know too much for that to make sense. Judaism is a LIVING tradition!
The Jewish tradition of thought and argumentation displayed in the the Talmud is, to a great degree, at the heart of what it is to be Jewish. There are, I think, several ways to consider this issue. I believe that Jewish history is still unfolding and that there is no reason to believe that God’s last word was issued thousands of years in the past. While it may be a bit conceited, I believe that, if the ears of Abraham were holy enough to hear the voice of God, than so are mine and yours. I also believe that our laws are created for the time in which they are issued. As a parent, I set rules for my children that are appropriate to their age. Some of the rules will be useful for the rest of their lives and some will become less and less necessary.
As an organic farmer living in a very non-Jewish community, I come up against the disparity between what Jewish law dictates and what I know to be correct very often. That said, I do try and look deeply at what Jewish law’s objectives might be. Two examples are Kil’Ayim and Pe’ah. As an organic farmer, the laws of Kil’Ayim that prohibit the mixing of seeds and set the distances between my vegetable crops are contrary to what I know to be the practices that best take care of the land I steward. I disregard them simply because I know better. Others have made the claim that the laws only apply to the ancient land of Israel or find other ways around them. They feel the need to justify their decisions within Jewish law. In fact, they are creating a more modern Judaism. Similarly, I could follow the laws of Pe’ah literally and leave the corners of my fields for gleaners but, in these times, doing so would really be a hollow gesture… no-one would come to glean. Instead, I choose to look at the intent of the law and make certain that a significant amount of each year’s crop goes to those in need.
We must also consider that we too can, and should, participate in the tradition of takkanah in order to leave this world better than we found it.
Mike Jacobs
http://www.easybeanfarm.com

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